The David Moyes debate

[kenada_blue]

We can't be spending much more on scouting than anyone, we have next to nothing left after wages. We can attract better players but we can't afford them so we take chances on loans more often than not.

I believe that if Martinez took over we would see a mixed bag from our team. Wigan pull off some impressive shocks and aren't afraid of going for the jugular of the big sides. They also, however hold the record for the heaviest EPL defeat (9-1 spurs, with 8-0 chelsea deserving an honourable mention) they are unpredictable under Martinez. He has achieved absolutely nothing there imo. Keeping them up is the minimum requirement, for me. What could Wigan achieve if they put their minds to it? Recent results suggest a hell of a lot better than what they're doing right now. Inconsistency.

Then as top players move on he WILL NOT sign the right calibre of player to keep us in the top 8. Thinking he would somehow will pick up where Moyes would be leaving off is wishful thinking to say the least. Moyes is treading water and he is far superior to Martinez.

I can't have anyone saying Wigan were in a worse state in 09 than we were when Moyes took over either. We were SO gash when Moyes took over it's untrue. Think of what people say about Smith's days. Dire. There is no way we were better than what Wigan were when Martinez took over. Yet, at the same stage as Martinez's career at Wigan, Moyes was boxing off a top 4 finish. With no money, zero club attractiveness and having to sell the most talented English player in decades. There isn't a case you could make for Martinez to take this job, in any way shape or form.

I respect the point that we took a risk with Moyes too. A bigger one, but you'll have to excuse me as I have to say i believe lightning will not strike twice. Bill is not THAT lucky. Moyes is once in a blue moon. Bill had the luck of the spawniest irishman in the world when he got Moyes. Not again. Definitely not Martinez.

Each manager have different trajectories and successes based on circumstances. When Moyes got that 4th spot, the way the climate has changed now, that will be impossible for any other club to do again under financial constraints. 2004/2005 didnt have as many financial heavy weights or clubs getting the right manager in than when Martinez took over in 2009. Chelsea, Liverpool or Arsenal might not get that 4th spot, all powerhouses back when Moyes got 4th, so it's unfair to judge success on the back of that.

I agree about the consistency aspect, but I also put that down to a positivity of his game plan. He'll lose 8.0 but wouldn't do that on the back of parking the bus but actually wanting to go and beat a side he has no chance in beating. He wouldn't use the "knife to a gunfight" analogy, he has belief in his players they can beat the opposition. He does need to fix the defensive aspects, but on that flip side they have shown they can win ugly and defend well.

That's my view anyway.

I'm struggling to think of anyone else who can come in with a positive attitude to utilise the talent we have knowing the financial constraints.

Moyes isn't going to stay here forever.

 

[paulbefc]

Yes, you big fat Kopite.

NO obviously ! I'm just saying i don't understand how an Everton fan doesn't see it as a massive deal. Just because i don't understand it doesn't mean i won't accept your right to hold that opinion.

It is a big deal. Especially the week after it. I doubt there are more than a handful of people on this forum who had a harder time than me after the 3-0. However in May, they only count for three points. To be honest, if we finish above Liverpool, I'll find the fact that we lost twice to them more amusing than gutting. You can bet your last dime they won't be bragging about those wins if we do.

 

[Matt Damon]

That's also nice, too bad i never said it.

You really do live in bizarro world.

You only have to go back 5 pages to see the evidence.

Oh and you were stating Moyes was ruining Jelavic.

Yes he ruined him. He's obviously ruined him in the past few weeks. ... in a "bizarro" world.

 

[Brennan]

You only have to go back 5 pages to see the evidence.

Oh and you were stating Moyes was ruining Jelavic.

Yes he ruined him. He's obviously ruined him in the past few weeks. ... in a "bizarro" world.

Post a link to me saying anywhere that we wouldn't catch Swansea.

Then post a link to me showing great delight in them being above us.

You won't and can't because neither happened.

 

[paulbefc]

Each manager have different trajectories and successes based on circumstances. When Moyes got that 4th spot, the way the climate has changed now, that will be impossible for any other club to do again under financial constraints. 2004/2005 didnt have as many financial heavy weights or clubs getting the right manager in than when Martinez took over in 2009. Chelsea, Liverpool or Arsenal might not get that 4th spot, all powerhouses back when Moyes got 4th, so it's unfair to judge success on the back of that.

I agree about the consistency aspect, but I also put that down to a positivity of his game plan. He'll lose 8.0 but wouldn't do that on the back of parking the bus but actually wanting to go and beat a side he has no chance in beating. He wouldn't use the "knife to a gunfight" analogy, he has belief in his players they can beat the opposition. He does need to fix the defensive aspects, but on that flip side they have shown they can win ugly and defend well.

That's my view anyway.

I'm struggling to think of anyone else who can come in with a positive attitude to utilise the talent we have knowing the financial constraints.

Moyes isn't going to stay here forever.

All correct.

I'd like a bit more positivity in tactics here, definitely but I think Martinez takes it a tad far. The fact that he plays so gung-ho even at Wigan who are relegation candidates is too cocky and could easily have sent them down. To his credit, however, they're still there. Ideally, I'd like Moyes to change and be less conservative but he only tend to do that when he's got a really strong squad to put out. We need money for that, unfortunately.

 

[Matt Damon]

Post a link to me saying anywhere that we wouldn't catch Swansea.

Then post a link to me showing great delight in them being above us.

You won't and can't because neither happened.

All the evidence needed is in this thread.

Also how you were saying Martinez was rubbish. Now he's the best thing since sliced bread to you.


Flip flop. Flip flop. Flip flop.

 

[Brennan]

All the evidence needed is in this thread.

Also how you were saying Martinez was rubbish. Now he's the best thing since sliced bread to you.

Flip flop. Flip flop. Flip flop.

I've never said that either. Keep on blowing it Kopite.

The one post you quoted from me in that Swansea thread doesn't show me saying that Swansea would finish above us.

 

[kenada_blue]

It is a big deal. Especially the week after it. I doubt there are more than a handful of people on this forum who had a harder time than me after the 3-0. However in May, they only count for three points. To be honest, if we finish above Liverpool, I'll find the fact that we lost twice to them more amusing than gutting. You can bet your last dime they won't be bragging about those wins if we do.

They could have two trophies in the bag though.

League positions dont interest me anymore. Finishing 7th has as much merit as 17th in my book. Trophies are what counts.

 

[kenada_blue]

All correct.

I'd like a bit more positivity in tactics here, definitely but I think Martinez takes it a tad far. The fact that he plays so gung-ho even at Wigan who are relegation candidates is too cocky and could easily have sent them down. To his credit, however, they're still there. Ideally, I'd like Moyes to change and be less conservative but he only tend to do that when he's got a really strong squad to put out. We need money for that, unfortunately.

I agree, and have said that he needs to change. Sadly I don't think he will (preseason next year will tell us a lot).

And I don't think you need money to be positive. We have the squad

 

[Matt Damon]

I've never said that either. Keep on blowing it Kopite.

The one post you quoted from me in that Swansea thread doesn't show me saying that Swansea would finish above us.

It was more than intimated.

I remember a few months ago, when certain posters were laughing...
at the idea of Swansea sustaining their attacking football, saying that they would run out of steam towards the end of the season and we would finish higher than them. Well, with 9 games left to play:

8th Swansea P29 GD 0 PTS 39
10th Everton P28 GD -3 PTS 37

Oops

1 Man Utd 33 50 79
2 Man City 33 53 74
3 Arsenal 33 25 64
4 Tottenham 33 19 59
5 Newcastle 33 8 59
6 Chelsea 33 18 57
7 Everton 33 4 47
8 Liverpool 33 4 46
9 Fulham 33 0 43
10 Norwich 33 -6 43
11 Sunderland 33 1 42
12 Stoke 33 -13 42
13 West Brom 33 -8 39
14 Swansea 33 -9 39
15 Aston Villa 32 -9 35
16 QPR 33 -18 31
17 Wigan 33 -26 31
18 Bolton 32 -29 29
19 Blackburn 33 -25 28
20 Wolves 33 -39 22

 

[paulbefc]

They could have two trophies in the bag though.

League positions dont interest me anymore. Finishing 7th has as much merit as 17th in my book. Trophies are what counts.

Trophies aren't what was being discussed. But on that topic, surely you must have been happy when Moyes rested all those players before the derby then? If the league doesn't matter. It matters to those with season tickets and it matters to the bottom line.

 

[Brennan]

It was more than intimated.



Oops

So in other words no, i didn't say it.

Still waiting for that summer takeover btw, Mr Kopite.

 

[davek]

The cup semi was turned on its head by that Distin back pass. We were the better side in the first half and we coped when they flew out the gates in the 2nd.

If going bold meant going for broke at 1-1 with 4 minutes remaining then I'm glad he didn't.

It's by fine margins Davek

But we lost anyway without going for it.

Fortune favours the brave.

The feller cant recognise opportunity when it knocks LOUDLY on the door.

 

[Brennan]

Trophies aren't what was being discussed. But on that topic, surely you must have been happy when Moyes rested all those players before the derby then? If the league doesn't matter. It matters to those with season tickets and it matters to the bottom line.

The league definitely matters.

 

[davek]

Losing to the shoite hurts,,, but you get over it in a week or two..........getting relegated hurts worse and takes a damn site longer to recover from..talk to leeds fans.

Ha Ha Ha Ha.

Wouldn't it be lovely if it were so. Anyone who gets over a loss like that in that space of time couldn't really care in the first place.

How long have you been an Evertonian mate?