The end of Hibbo?

[Walken]

How do you know they haven't? Not every single offer that comes in for a player makes the light of day. Remember a couple of seasons ago Spurs no less tried to buy Phil bloody Neville? Half the defender and a team pushing for Champions league wanted to buy him...

Hes been with us since he was 10 or 11, blue through and through and is a good solid defender - why sell?

I'm buy no means a neville fan, but he was a better player than hibbert

 

[Walken]

yes, to everyone!


Did you watch the game today? Noone even bothered passing the ball to Coleman! I don't care about "lack of imagination" the midfielders and forwards can do that, we need defenders that can actually defend; that can read the game; that are solid and soldier on regardless!

Apart from brilliantly setting up Kone, theres no place at teams who want to compete at the highest level for defenders who are 'defenders not footballers', this is the only country in europe where that mantra is acceptable, no wonder were light years behind the best. As our two center halves showed today, you actually have to be able to play football

 

[Walken]

I look forward to seeing the sister thread "The end of Osman".

i'm just looking foward to the end of Osman

 

[Hayee]

Apart from brilliantly setting up Kone, theres no place at teams who want to compete at the highest level for defenders who are 'defenders not footballers', this is the only country in europe where that mantra is acceptable, no wonder were light years behind the best. As our two center halves showed today, you actually have to be able to play football

our two centre halves that went missing for most of the game? that had some very dodgy back passes and let offs? And some completely wayward "crosses" yep, i understand! Tony Hibbert can play football, he's a FULL BACK, you know, a defender that does that thing that he's meant to do, ummm what's it called again? Oh yeah, DEFENDING!!!!!!!!!
As for Coleman brilliantly setting up Kone, he needn't have bothered!

 

[Walken]

our two centre halves that went missing for most of the game? that had some very dodgy back passes and let offs? And some completely wayward "crosses" yep, i understand! Tony Hibbert can play football, he's a FULL BACK, you know, a defender that does that thing that he's meant to do, ummm what's it called again? Oh yeah, DEFENDING!!!!!!!!!
As for Coleman brilliantly setting up Kone, he needn't have bothered!

I agree with you on the center halves, I didnt word it very well, I was highlighting their poor performance on the ball as a reason why even defenders have to have some technical ability at the highest level. I dont see any player as a defender first, they are footballers first, especially with the game Martinez wants to play. Picking Hibbert over the superb Coleman is absolutely the most insane thing I've ever heard

 

[formerly manx toffee]

Love Hibbo, love Ossie.

 

[Seamus Colemole]

I agree with you on the center halves, I didnt word it very well, I was highlighting their poor performance on the ball as a reason why even defenders have to have some technical ability at the highest level. I dont see any player as a defender first, they are footballers first, especially with the game Martinez wants to play. Picking Hibbert over the superb Coleman is absolutely the most insane thing I've ever heard

Yeah exactly. Even more crazy when someone claims Hibbert is a better defender when he's actually only better at a certain part of defending and bloody awful at other parts.

1 on 1 situation, tackling and working hard : he's very good at. But way too many times a striker or winger would get in behind him because he switched off or drifted inside, or a winger would get a cross in because he gave them too much room.

Great pro who managed to have a good career with us but overall not good enough for us and rightfully replaced by Coleman.

 

[Hayee]

I agree with you on the center halves, I didnt word it very well, I was highlighting their poor performance on the ball as a reason why even defenders have to have some technical ability at the highest level. I dont see any player as a defender first, they are footballers first, especially with the game Martinez wants to play. Picking Hibbert over the superb Coleman is absolutely the most insane thing I've ever heard

Why? I do rate Coleman but he scares me when it comes to defending, and call me insane, but I want a defender who can defend; who can time the perfect challenge, who will go in hard when needed whilst keeping it fair, who will give his all for the club. Seamus is superb going forward, i'll not argue there, and he is very fast and very good at it, but my heart is in my throat when someone runs at him whereas I know if someone ran at Hibbert, 9 times out of 10 it would be dealt with appropriately, by either blocking it, tackling, keeping with the opposition player and forcing him backwards/an error/the ball out of play. And finally, he is one of us, he lives and breathes the club; thats how I know he will always give everything he has for us!

 

[Walken]

Why? I do rate Coleman but he scares me when it comes to defending, and call me insane, but I want a defender who can defend; who can time the perfect challenge, who will go in hard when needed whilst keeping it fair, who will give his all for the club. Seamus is superb going forward, i'll not argue there, and he is very fast and very good at it, but my heart is in my throat when someone runs at him whereas I know if someone ran at Hibbert, 9 times out of 10 it would be dealt with appropriately, by either blocking it, tackling, keeping with the opposition player and forcing him backwards/an error/the ball out of play. And finally, he is one of us, he lives and breathes the club; thats how I know he will always give everything he has for us!

I just dont agree that hibbert is a better defender, Coleman is fine at the back and doesnt hinder us defensively in anyway, going back to playing hibbert would be such a backwards move because he hinders the teams play in general, right now we have tremendous balance on both flanks, we lose that with hibbert back in the team. The one of us argument, well, he seems like a top lad and all that, but for me thats no argument for picking him over far more talented players, would you pick mick lyons over lothar matthaus?

 

[Seamus Colemole]

Why? I do rate Coleman but he scares me when it comes to defending, and call me insane, but I want a defender who can defend; who can time the perfect challenge, who will go in hard when needed whilst keeping it fair, who will give his all for the club.

This reminds me of that thread at the start of last season where certain posters claimed Coleman couldn't defend.

As i said earlier, Hibbert is very good at that part of the game i agree but you seem to be suggesting Coleman isn't. He's probably not quite as good as Hibbert in that situation but he's more than capable, i bet you'd be in a minority in being scared when an attacker runs at Coleman.

And by giving an example of how you want a defender to defend yet ignoring the times he doesn't defend (not letting players in behind him cause he's switched off) doesn't really help your argument.

 

[Hayee]

I just dont agree that hibbert is a better defender, Coleman is fine at the back and doesnt hinder us defensively in anyway, going back to playing hibbert would be such a backwards move because he hinders the teams play in general, right now we have tremendous balance on both flanks, we lose that with hibbert back in the team. The one of us argument, well, he seems like a top lad and all that, but for me thats no argument for picking him over far more talented players, would you pick mick lyons over lothar matthaus?

I'm not in a position to choose between the two as I never saw either play; but if you gave me the choice between Cafu and Steve Watson, then obviously I'd choose Cafu; that's no disrespect to Steve Watson but Cafu is (was) the better defender, however, I'd argue that Steve Watson was more creative going forward (I was there when he scored a hattrick!)
I don't see how we do have balance, there were SO many times yesterday when Coleman was in acres of space on his own and they would not pass to him, preferring to go down the (heavily defended and congested) left instead. My argument is not against Seamus Coleman, he's a good player, my argument is FOR Tony Hibbert. And there will come a point this season where he will get in the team due to injuries/suspensions/whatever and I hope you all eat your words. His only problem is he is so quiet, you don't notice what he does - when he does play, do me a favour, keep an eye on him and how much he actually does do.

This reminds me of that thread at the start of last season where certain posters claimed Coleman couldn't defend.

As i said earlier, Hibbert is very good at that part of the game i agree but you seem to be suggesting Coleman isn't. He's probably not quite as good as Hibbert in that situation but he's more than capable, i bet you'd be in a minority in being scared when an attacker runs at Coleman.

And by giving an example of how you want a defender to defend yet ignoring the times he doesn't defend (not letting players in behind him cause he's switched off) doesn't really help your argument.

Me and you usually get on fine when it comes to arguing the toss about things, but I completely disagree with everything you're saying - yeah Tony has switched off in the past and conceded goals, but so has Seamus Coleman, infact, so has Jagielka, Distin, Baines, Heitinga, Tim Howard, I could go on but I wont. Again, as i've just said, I have no problem at all with Seamus Coleman, he's a good little player, but for me i'd rather see him further up the field with Tony Hibbert behind him, shoring things up. Every footballer switches off from time to time, i challenge you to find me one who doesn't! And the majority of the first team did at some point or other yesterday alone!

 

[Walken]

I'm not in a position to choose between the two as I never saw either play; but if you gave me the choice between Cafu and Steve Watson, then obviously I'd choose Cafu; that's no disrespect to Steve Watson but Cafu is (was) the better defender, however, I'd argue that Steve Watson was more creative going forward (I was there when he scored a hattrick!)
I don't see how we do have balance, there were SO many times yesterday when Coleman was in acres of space on his own and they would not pass to him, preferring to go down the (heavily defended and congested) left instead. My argument is not against Seamus Coleman, he's a good player, my argument is FOR Tony Hibbert. And there will come a point this season where he will get in the team due to injuries/suspensions/whatever and I hope you all eat your words. His only problem is he is so quiet, you don't notice what he does - when he does play, do me a favour, keep an eye on him and how much he actually does do.

I've watched enough Hibbert for one lifetime to be honest, from a selfish point of view he's not a player I enjoy watching, I do enjoy watching Coleman play, someone who actually wants the ball at his feet. As for balance, you must be able to see that having two full back in the team that have the desire, energy, skill and pace to get forward is a more balanced approach than having one who's would rather stay in his own half while the other wants to get forawrd, making us far more effective going forward on one side than the other, thus making the team very lopsided and making it far far easier for the opposition to be able to shut us down as a attacking force

 

[Hayee]

I've watched enough Hibbert for one lifetime to be honest, from a selfish point of view he's not a player I enjoy watching, I do enjoy watching Coleman play, someone who actually wants the ball at his feet. As for balance, you must be able to see that having two full back in the team that have the desire, energy, skill and pace to get forward is a more balanced approach than having one who's would rather stay in his own half while the other wants to get forawrd, making us far more effective going forward on one side than the other, thus making the team very lopsided and making it far far easier for the opposition to be able to shut us down as a attacking force

So the team wasn't lopsided yesterday when everyone continually overlooked Coleman in favour of playing it to Baines? The fact of the matter is that no matter who is at right back, they're gonna try and play it down the left, thus making it a bit pointless having anyone on that side at all (apart from when it comes to defensive duties!)
I'm fed up of everyone continually slating a player that has played for us for over 12 years, at left back right back and centre half (remember that eh? If not, here's a thread on it http://www.grandoldteam.com/forum/t...in-the-world!-(well-the-emergancy-one-anyway)) The lad has never spoken out against the club or any of the players, he has never complained when asked to play somewhere he isn't accustomed to, he has never complained about being subbed/on the bench/out of the squad. He has always done whatever has been asked of him to the best of his ability; just like Leon Osman. These players would not have had such long careers with us if they were useless, they are valuable members of the team and they are Evertonians. Now will everyone stop getting at them and support the ****ing team please? We're meant to be Evertonians, not ****ing kopites!!!!!

 

[bluelife]

Coleman pulls his hamstring warming up for the derby at Anfield
Hibbert is put into the first team
Hibbert scores from the edge of the box in the 92nd minutes to make it 4-3 to Everton.

Imagine the scenes

 

[Walken]

So the team wasn't lopsided yesterday when everyone continually overlooked Coleman in favour of playing it to Baines? The fact of the matter is that no matter who is at right back, they're gonna try and play it down the left, thus making it a bit pointless having anyone on that side at all (apart from when it comes to defensive duties!)
I'm fed up of everyone continually slating a player that has played for us for over 12 years, at left back right back and centre half (remember that eh? If not, here's a thread on it http://www.grandoldteam.com/forum/t...in-the-world!-(well-the-emergancy-one-anyway)) The lad has never spoken out against the club or any of the players, he has never complained when asked to play somewhere he isn't accustomed to, he has never complained about being subbed/on the bench/out of the squad. He has always done whatever has been asked of him to the best of his ability; just like Leon Osman. These players would not have had such long careers with us if they were useless, they are valuable members of the team and they are Evertonians. Now will everyone stop getting at them and support the ****ing team please? We're meant to be Evertonians, not ****ing kopites!!!!!

I didnt think we did lack balance, we could have used the right more, but it was nothing in comparison to the days before coleman, and in general havent with Coleman in the team, in short Coleman has improved us as a side from the days when Hibbert/Neville played RB.

As for your second, I agree those are all very admirable traits, but it doesnt make them any more deserving of being selected in the startin 11 over better players