The EU deal

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Trying to help a black lad what'd been shivved?



I did say Oldham, but Bradford'll do. Why had it been brewing for a while?



I didn't want to answer this because it's very little to do with the the topic. But I'll do you the courtesy all the same.

You see, I heard it at the time from a former Oldham resident (Him & his missus had recently moved out a few months before the riots occurred). The indians wern't any problem at all, it was the pakistanis & bangladeshis what were the problem.

But of course - he's white, so obviously a lying, racist powell enthusiast himself.

Well he would've been, but for the fact his missus is Filipino, and she agreed with him.
So bro got Oldham and Bradford mixed up they all look the same!!!!
Tottenham I think was more than just one isolated incident,Toxteth,St Pauls and a number of other places suffered riots,I would say in the main due to aggresive policing,stop and search, and ar the time a lot of racism in police forces
 

Still think Turkey joining up is a good idea??

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36413097

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has called on Muslims to reject contraception and have more children.

In a speech broadcast live on TV, he said "no Muslim family" should consider birth control or family planning.

"We will multiply our descendants," said Mr Erdogan, who became president in August 2014 after serving as prime minister for 12 years.

His AK Party has its roots in Islamism and many of its supporters are conservative Muslims.

In Monday's speech in Istanbul, the Turkish leader placed the onus on women, particularly on "well-educated future mothers", to not use birth control and to ensure the continued growth of Turkey's population.

Mr Erdogan himself is a father of four. He has previously spoken out against contraception, describing it as "treason" when speaking at a wedding ceremony in 2014.

He has also urged women to have at least three children, and has said women cannot be treated as equal to men.

The Turkish Statistical Institute says that the country's fertility rate was 2.14 children per woman in 2015, which is just above the replacement level and half the rate in 1980.

Despite this decline, Turkey's fertility rate is one of the highest in Europe and the country's relatively young population (compared with other European countries) is still growing. The population is just under 80 million.

The United Nations Population Fund says Turkey has a "substantial" unmet need for quality family planning. One fifth of married women use abortion as a way of controlling their fertility, it says.

BBC Religions: Islamic views on contraception
 
The Daily Mail ballsed up though because Powell described the “white woman old-age pensioner” as someone who “lost her husband and both her sons in the war”. Mrs Cotterill was childless.
Maybe Powell balls up and embellished her service to her country. You are arguing details because you are wanting to poke holes in what he said however the general gist seems to have been right. Look as I said. I don't know much about him so don't really want to defend him. I literally just know the name "Rivers of Blood" and what I read on that Google page.
 
One small thing that exemplifies the power we have given away is the fact that our own government cannot change the tax named as the tampon tax. How pathetic.
 

Ok my own personal view.

I think journalists, political class, chattering class have lived in an echo chamber. They haven't had to actually debate these issues because everyone from Enoch Powell to now has been branded a racist or xenophobe for bringing them up.

For that reason a general consensus has emerged unchallenged and further this group hasn't been able to question it's own theories because to do so would be professional suicide. I also think there are global players who are above that and hire a lot of drones straight out of their political science classes to enforce this doctrine if anyone steps out of line through social media using NGOs like the Open Border Foundation.

Wouldn't disagree with the notion of an out-of-touch elite, which extends to the media. But that's too vague - are you saying that all of our political class live in the same echo chamber?

In relation to the content of that opinion piece - what do you make of/how would you go about explaining the overwhelming support from economists to 'Bremain'?
 
Still think Turkey joining up is a good idea??

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36413097

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has called on Muslims to reject contraception and have more children.

In a speech broadcast live on TV, he said "no Muslim family" should consider birth control or family planning.

"We will multiply our descendants," said Mr Erdogan, who became president in August 2014 after serving as prime minister for 12 years.

His AK Party has its roots in Islamism and many of its supporters are conservative Muslims.

In Monday's speech in Istanbul, the Turkish leader placed the onus on women, particularly on "well-educated future mothers", to not use birth control and to ensure the continued growth of Turkey's population.

Mr Erdogan himself is a father of four. He has previously spoken out against contraception, describing it as "treason" when speaking at a wedding ceremony in 2014.

He has also urged women to have at least three children, and has said women cannot be treated as equal to men.

The Turkish Statistical Institute says that the country's fertility rate was 2.14 children per woman in 2015, which is just above the replacement level and half the rate in 1980.

Despite this decline, Turkey's fertility rate is one of the highest in Europe and the country's relatively young population (compared with other European countries) is still growing. The population is just under 80 million.

The United Nations Population Fund says Turkey has a "substantial" unmet need for quality family planning. One fifth of married women use abortion as a way of controlling their fertility, it says.

BBC Religions: Islamic views on contraception

A lot of that sounds just like it could have been said by the Pope.

And again for those who didn't catch it yesterday.
Some facts on the proposed Turkey/EU agreement to hopefully alleviate some worries.


The visa deal will allow Turkish citizens to travel to the EU for 90 days at a time, within any 180-day period, for “business, touristic or family purposes”. There’s no right to live or work in the EU, and the agreement only applies to Schengen zone countries. It will have no impact on the UK or Ireland.

As well as tying Turkey into new readmission obligations, the visa liberalisation “roadmap” includes 72 criteria it must fulfill before visa-free travel is agreed. These range from immigration criteria such as document control and border security, to public order and Turkish citizens’ rights. The European Commission also has to assess the migration and security impact of relaxing visa restrictions on Turkish passport holders.

This is not the free for all the the Leave campaign would have us believe.
 
What did he say?

Given his background I bet he recognized the parallels between the old land feudal system and the new economic feudal system which they are trying to bring in.

"When I saw how the European Union was developing, it was very obvious what they had in mind was not democratic. In Britain, you vote for a government so the government has to listen to you, and if you don't like it you can change it."

"Britain's continuing membership of the [European] Community would mean the end of Britain as a completely self-governing nation."

We have confused the real issue of parliamentary democracy, for already there has been a fundamental change. The power of electors over their law-makers has gone, the power of MPs over Ministers has gone, the role of Ministers has changed. The real case for entry has never been spelled out, which is that there should be a fully federal Europe in which we become a province. It hasn't been spelled out because people would never accept it. We are at the moment on a federal escalator, moving as we talk, going towards a federal objective we do not wish to reach. In practice, Britain will be governed by a European coalition government that we cannot change, dedicated to a capitalist or market economy theology. This policy is to be sold to us by projecting an unjustified optimism about the Community, and an unjustified pessimism about the United Kingdom, designed to frighten us in. Jim quoted Benjamin Franklin, so let me do the same: "He who would give up essential liberty for a little temporary security deserves neither safety nor liberty." The Common Market will break up the UK because there will be no valid argument against an independent Scotland, with its own Ministers and Commissioner, enjoying Common Market membership. We shall be choosing between the unity of the UK and the unity of the EEC. It will impose appalling strains on the Labour movement...I believe that we want independence and democratic self-government, and I hope the Cabinet in due course will think again.

If democracy is destroyed in Britain it will be not the communists, Trotskyists or subversives but this House which threw it away. The rights that are entrusted to us are not for us to give away. Even if I agree with everything that is proposed, I cannot hand away powers lent to me for five years by the people of Chesterfield. I just could not do it. It would be theft of public rights.

‘There are three options open to us. One is to protect our parliamentary democracy, which would offend the
Community; the second is to abandon parliamentary democracy which would offend the Manifesto; the third
option is to fudge it.
‘This is the most important constitutional document ever put before a Labour Cabinet. Our whole political
history is contained in this paper. It recommends a reversal of hundreds of years of history which have
progressively widened the power of the people over their governors. Now great chunks are to be handed to
the Commission. I can think of no body of men outside the Kremlin who have so much power without a
shred of accountability for what they do.
‘The Community will destroy the whole basis on which the labour movement was founded, and its
commitment to democratic change. That’s one of the reasons we have a small Communist Party, why the
ultra-Left is so unimportant, because we can say to people “Change your MP and you can change the law”.
That’s where the attack on democracy is coming from. If we accept this paper, we’d be betraying, in a very
special sense, our whole history.’
 

People need to improve their critical thinking skills in this thread. Gandhi was documented as being quite ignorant and racist during his stay in S.A., yes - does referencing that constitute an adequate defense of citing Enoch Powell, really? If Brexiters are upset about the word 'racist' being thrown around as a lazy means of closing down debate, then why have I read the words 'gas-lighting' and 'virtue-signalling', too?

One way of shutting down what you might feel to be unfair labeling etc. is to come out and categorically state what you hope to happen in regards to movement of labour in the case of leaving the EU, and how big a problem you feel it to be, and where you've got your information from.
I think most Brexiters want a point system similar to Australia. I would also allow guest worker VISAs for people in the EU to come and live for 12 months at a time for people under the age of 30 which would also allow people in the UK to work in the EU so they can choose to have a gap year.
 
Wouldn't disagree with the notion of an out-of-touch elite, which extends to the media. But that's too vague - are you saying that all of our political class live in the same echo chamber?

In relation to the content of that opinion piece - what do you make of/how would you go about explaining the overwhelming support from economists to 'Bremain'?
Everyone has bills to pay. Don't dismiss the reason being that simple.
 
In relation to the content of that opinion piece - what do you make of/how would you go about explaining the overwhelming support from economists to 'Bremain'?

Would these be the same people who said we should join the Euro ? Or are they the same economists who wanted us in the ERM or are they the ones who missed the collapse of the banks......
 

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