The EU deal

Clint Planet · May 31, 2016

Cypher said:
What exactly did he say that has turned out to be wrong?

His so called "Rivers of Blood" speech predicted some sort of apocalyptic Britain riven by racial war.

"As I look ahead, I am filled with foreboding; like the Roman, I seem to see 'the River Tiber foaming with much blood.'"

It hasn't happened, has it?

Whistlin' Dixie · May 31, 2016

Hibbertinho said:
Are you saying things haven't changed in the last 25 years?

In the sense that we don't have any more of a say, no. We've been to cowardly to flout the rules - unlike the Italians & French.

Reform? They're not interested in reform, but ever closer union, where national sovereignty is an abhorrent concept..

Well they can sod-off imo.

Clint Planet · May 31, 2016

SNova said:
Mandela was a terrorist commie.

Dear oh dear. Do you actually believe that?

Whistlin' Dixie · May 31, 2016

Clint Planet said:
His so called "Rivers of Blood" speech predicted some sort of apocalyptic Britain riven by racial war.

"As I look ahead, I am filled with foreboding; like the Roman, I seem to see 'the River Tiber foaming with much blood.'"

It hasn't happened, has it?

Trying to tell me there's no underlying racial tension - from ALL races - in the UK?

There haven't been any race riots?

There are no muslim fundamentalist loons?

There are no neo-nazis?

You're kidding yourself, if so.

daylightrobber · May 31, 2016

Whistlin' Dixie said:
Who's 'hating' on them?

Come on - who - and how?

Our own lower classes helped build this country as much as any 'immigrants' did. This country was built during the industrial revolution squire, on the sweat of our own men, women, and yes - even children. A long time before the days when the floodgates were opened to millions of eastern europeans, or the 60's when it was jamaicans, bangladeshis, pakistanis, indians et al.

But don't let facts get in the way of your over-emotive, hand-wringing, 'mea culpa' agenda.

Perhaps should've been more specific. I actually meant rebuilding. After the war. However, considering the fact that there is no such thing as our own, when it comes to demographics the point still stands. The UK has been shaped by foreigners.

The who and the how ranges between those who actively campaign against foreigners' presence in the UK, to those who stir things up through rhetoric, knowing fine well what the outcome will be. Living as a foreigner in any country is not easy. It is getting harder and harder in the UK as tolerance is diminished

daylightrobber · May 31, 2016

Joey66 said:
2007 well it's 2016can you believe an unelected beurocrats from the EU with the power who's names you do not know?????
Snouts in the trough comes to my mind!

I keep seeing this term un-elected bureaucrats. Who are you talking about?

Whistlin' Dixie · May 31, 2016

daylightrobber said:
Perhaps should've been more specific. I actually meant rebuilding. After the war. However, considering the fact that there is no such thing as our own, when it comes to demographics the point still stands. The UK has been shaped by foreigners.

The who and the how ranges between those who actively campaign against foreigners' presence in the UK, to those who stir things up through rhetoric, knowing fine well what the outcome will be. Living as a foreigner in any country is not easy. It is getting harder and harder in the UK as tolerance is diminished

Oh, so it's not 'built' but 'rebuilt' now?

More garbage. The reason we had mass immigration from the commonwealth in the 60's (At least 15 years after the end of WWII) was because Britain had rebuilt it's economy to the point where it had surplus jobs that couldn't be filled. People could walk out of a job in the morning and be in another by lunchtime.

That's not the case today.

SNova · May 31, 2016

One thing that may swing the vote towards leave is the fact that people who are voting to leave are more likely to actually vote.

Clint Planet said:
Dear oh dear. Do you actually believe that?

Yes, but that's off topic.

Cypher · May 31, 2016

Hibbertinho said:
The man is an utter trumpet. I can give him some credit for forcing Cameron to give us a referendum I don't personally want, if you like.

Give some specific examples - I disagree wholeheartedly with this sentiment:

...because it's tripe and it doesn't make me feel sorry for anyone.

No of course it doesn't make you feel sorry because just like the referendum you would prefer the debate and referendum weren't taking place.

Cypher · May 31, 2016

daylightrobber said:
As long as there are people who hate on foreigners in our country I won't change the record, no. I will defend to the hilt the many millions of immigrants who helped build our nation and I will defend them when people point the finger and say it's their fault that the nation they helped to build is 'supposedly' struggling. Its a disgusting, horrible lie.

But that's the point. No one hates foreigners in our country. They hate open borders and uncontrolled immigration for valid reasons.

ClausThomsen · May 31, 2016

I didn't realise we had open borders and no immigration controls?

Whistlin' Dixie · May 31, 2016

Cypher said:
But that's the point. No one hates foreigners in our country. They hate open borders and uncontrolled immigration for valid reasons.

Oh no mate.

Not letting in a romanian wicker basket maker because we don't require his/her skills is just plain RACISM...

Cypher · May 31, 2016

Hibbertinho said:
For me, the most condensed argument I can give is that anyone who says they know what will happen when we leave is massively deluded or lying. The idea that we will be a great trading power again by default is fanciful. And the other arguments for leaving just aren't that well justified, for me.

So I think it's better to stay in and have a voice, even though there needs to be a lot of change.

None of the main campaigns have represented the argument well whatsoever, though. I think it's a very complicated matter, that doesn't warrant simple narratives/headlines - so people should listen to the experts & academics.

Funny because I think anyone who says what will happen if we remain is deluded.

Difference of opinion and all that.

Cypher · May 31, 2016

Clint Planet said:
His so called "Rivers of Blood" speech predicted some sort of apocalyptic Britain riven by racial war.

"As I look ahead, I am filled with foreboding; like the Roman, I seem to see 'the River Tiber foaming with much blood.'"

It hasn't happened, has it?

That's a quote from Virgil's Aeneid. It was convey a feeling of foreboding. Only people that want to dismiss it take it to be a literal foretelling of what was to come.

Gladystweet · May 31, 2016

Apologies if it's already been mentioned but has anyone watched "brexit the movie" on YouTube? I'll be honest and say my mind was already made up but fascinating to watch all the same.