The EU deal

[edge]

Hard to disagree with this tbh. Anyone who voted last time out had their chance.

i am not that old, saying that those who voted at the time were more than than likely thinking they were joining a trading block, nothing like what it has become,
my kids don't really seem engaged with it one way or another, but think they would vote stay at a push.

 

[dandydan]

Hard to disagree with this tbh. Anyone who voted last time out had their chance.

What did they vote for? and drunks are people too.

 

[peteblue]

Why are Pete and Edge allowed to vote for the future of the uk when they're old men, who'll probably drink themselves to death in the next 5 years and never live with the consequences of their vote?

Should be an under 40s thing only.

Because we understand these things. We voted the country into a trading block and now we are going to vote the country out of an undemocratic superstate in the making. Don't worry children, the grown ups are still in charge......

 

[peteblue]

i am not that old, saying that those who voted at the time were more than than likely thinking they were joining a trading block, nothing like what it has become,
my kids don't really seem engaged with it one way or another, but think they would vote stay at a push.

Then you'd better have a word with them.......

 

[Cypher]

Jeremy Paxman is about as neutral as @daylightrobber ffs, there's not such thing as a neutral journalist.

That's about as far to "pro-remain" as you get on the BBC and that's just because it's Pax. They even forced him to drop an editorial because it was pro-Brexit otherwise you they would drop his show.

The BBC is another one of the media establishment doing what they can to keep us in.

 

[Cypher]

I merely stated that a foreign labourer may have qualities that a British based employer would want. Someone who is willing to uproot from the country they were born and raised in, willing to leave their family and friends to go and work in a strange country with a different language and culture in an attempt to better their personal circumstances. Those are potentially admirable qualities.

My statement was an argument against the idea that a Romanian with basket weaving skills has absolutely no value whatsoever. Not a generalisation of the work ethic of British people as a whole.

I also said that some jobs are much harder to staff than other jobs and have far fewer applicants of sufficient standard. Thus employers end up relying upon immigrant workers to help make up the shortfall. Nothing to do with feckless or workshy nationalities, just numbers.

I'm well aware that there are a huge number of scurrilous employment agencies that exploit current labour laws to line their own pockets. This has always been the way with a lot of temp agencys who prey on those desperate for work. I can't see that leaving the EU would suddenly see them develop a conscience. I feel there's an argument to be had that making it harder to employ foreign work would lead to an increase in the number of illegal workers who's exploitation would be much greater and would cost immoral employees much, much less.

I think the problem with this referendum is that both options have potential advantages but both options also present problems. Everybody attaches a different amount of weight to each potential problem and it becomes a very personal choice. I personally believe in freedom of labour movement and others don't. I don't believe that the Human Rights Act or work time directives are a bad thing.

Every aspect has flaws and loopholes as with all things but I'd rather Britain be a part of any future debate on it. There are elements of corruption, selfishness and avarice in every level of political organisation from parish councils through Central Government and onto the world stage. The EU is no different but I hope that it also has many who are genuinely in it for the right reasons.

No it's not just numbers. It's wages and working conditions. You could get anyone to do any job if you pay them enough.

 

[Cypher]

I think the EU is massively flawed but then so is the political system in the UK. I think that a post-brexit UK would suit the right more than the left. The ruling class more than the man in the street. Workers' rights would become more under attack outside the EU. I reject the idea that EU "directives" make the UK A worse place to live. I trust "Europe" more than I do the USA. I Think that we in the West have a moral duty to help the refugees of the wars that we perpetrate in our own interests.

On Saturday, I went to a rally featuring Owen Jones, Caroline Lucas and Yannis Varufakis, amongst others, the basic idea of which was that leaving would definitely be detrimental to British citizens' lot and so we should stay in and fight to make the EU more accountable.

I have signed up to DiEM25 and will vote and campaign to remain.

https://diem25.org

We had nothing to do with Syria. We didn't invade it. We didn't support it's government, Assad. We didn't destabilize it. If there's one country we have nothing to do with in the Middle East and there probably is only one then it's Syria.

 

[Cypher]

Because we understand these things. We voted the country into a trading block and now we are going to vote the country out of an undemocratic superstate in the making. Don't worry children, the grown ups are still in charge......

I would say thanks but it took you long enough to wake up. The worst thing is that it's a gradual process for everyone. The same people who are disagreeing with us are going to be the same people complaining when the UK resembles a developing world country like Brazil in 40 years time.

 

[Joey66]

So much rewriting of history from the Leavers in this thread. It's almost like they just make everything up.

Not really I Was conned to vote for the common market not this time!
I lived through the change and it was for the worse financially!
If whe were currently out of the EU think would you vote to join it in its present state?
Financially in ruin, borders like an sieve from outside migration
It would be a no contest when we joined there were 7 countries now 28 with more to join?
It would be a definite NO to join a bankrupt club of European beurocrats!
If we were in the Euro we would have been stuffed, oh and the same politicians advocate to remain, yet they got that wrong over the Euro too!

 

[Cypher]

Not really I Was conned to vote for the common market not this time!
I lived through the change and it was for the worse financially!

All the global institutions are for the worse financially for the common people of the developed world. Ultimately for the people of the developing world to rise out of poverty we have to surrender a good bit of our living standards. It's not zero sum but the difference is too great to allow that process to take place naturally with out it having huge detrimental effects on the poorer people of the developed world.

Not like the elites give a damn about that.

 

[Joey66]

All the global institutions are for the worse financially for the common people of the developed world. Ultimately for the people of the developing world to rise out of poverty we have to surrender a good bit of our living standards. It's not zero sum but the difference is too great to allow that process to take place naturally with out it having huge detrimental effects on the poorer people of the developed world.

Not like the elites give a damn about that.

The propaganda DC and the remain campaign is the same rubbish they churned out last time also to spend 7 million on propaganda leaflets in a time of austerity was a disgrace - we are big enough to govern ourselves they need us more than we need them, our contribution is high what do we get out of it?
Big corporations thrive on it tax dodging in offices in Brussels etc!
We could also get our fish channels back!

 

[Allezfan]

Because we understand these things. We voted the country into a trading block and now we are going to vote the country out of an undemocratic superstate in the making. Don't worry children, the grown ups are still in charge......

It'll take a whole 5 years for any exit to actually go into effect. So anyone who'll die in the next 5 years are voting for stuff that will never effect them. Not right.

I want the guys there at the polling stations checking your blood pressure.

 

[edge]

Then you'd better have a word with them.......

they are more bothered about exams in uni, holidays ect leaving them to it, 3 less stay votes.

 

[edge]

It'll take a whole 5 years for any exit to actually go into effect. So anyone who'll die in the next 5 years are voting for stuff that will never effect them. Not right.

I want the guys there at the polling stations checking your blood pressure.

thanks not ready for the graveyard just yet still 12 year of work ahead of me, that's if i last that long.

 

[daylightrobber]

I would say thanks but it took you long enough to wake up. The worst thing is that it's a gradual process for everyone. The same people who are disagreeing with us are going to be the same people complaining when the UK resembles a developing world country like Brazil in 40 years time.

More irrational thought.