The EU deal

[Cypher]

Well it's not really as simple as that, is it? There's plenty of practicalities to consider, like traveling to / working in Europe.

No there isn't. No EU country is going to turn away people if they are qualified and won't be a burden to the state. Likewise if you are student and want to work for a short time then getting a VISAs won't be an issue.

I have worked in the US as a student and as an adult. It wasn't hard to get the necessary VISAs and the US is one of the hardest places to get into. Same with Australia. I also know people who emigrated there and they run a points system similar to what is being proposed.

Likewise it will be the same for people wanting to come here.

 

[peteblue]

Part 2 of the Independent article that I posted yesterday.....

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...erman-power-no-wonder-it-failed-a7049901.html

"I argued yesterday that, before we can decide whether to remain in the European Union (EU), or to leave it, it is important to understand what sort of thing the EU is.

In describing the early history of the European Union and its predecessors, I sought to show that it was designed largely in the interests of France. And in turn France’s decisions were driven by its fear of a resurgent Germany.

France, after all, had been invaded three times by Germany in the previous hundred years.

I ended my account with De Gaulle’s veto of Britain’s first application to become a member. At a press conference, he said: “The Treaty of Rome was concluded between six continental states, states that are, economically speaking, one may say, of the same nature. Indeed, whether it be a matter of their industrial or agricultural production, their external exchanges, their habits or their commercial clientele, their living or working conditions, there is between them much more resemblance than difference…

“England in effect is insular, she is maritime, she is linked through her exchanges, her markets, her supply lines to the most diverse and often the most distant countries; she pursues essentially industrial and commercial activities, and only slight agricultural ones.".........article continues.......

 

[The Cowboy]

No there isn't. No EU country is going to turn away people if they are qualified and won't be a burden to the state. Likewise if you are student and want to work for a short time then getting a VISAs won't be an issue.

I have worked in the US as a student and as an adult. It wasn't hard to get the necessary VISAs and the US is one of the hardest places to get into. Same with Australia. I also know people who emigrated there and they run a points system similar to what is being proposed.

Likewise it will be the same for people wanting to come here.

Fair enough!

 

[Cypher]

Weak argument. The UK's EU commissioner is the UK representative at the top table in the EU. The UK government has every right to appoint the person they feel is best for the job, just like they do in many other fields.

The difference is none of those fields propose laws and just in case you wanted to know. I don't like the idea of it in those other ares either e.g. an unelected bank of England.

I trust the electorate more than I trust the elite. I believe in democracy rather than people who think they know what is best for the little people.

 

[Toffeelover]

We all here about the future if we leave, add to that the doom and gloom from the in camp if we leave. But what we do not hear from the stay in camp what will it be like in 5 years or ten years. Is it just carry on as we are or will the EU continue to exercise control and increasingly so as it has done over the last decade. What is before us if we stay in, it is about time the in camp clarified that.

 

[daylightrobber]

No there isn't. No EU country is going to turn away people if they are qualified and won't be a burden to the state. Likewise if you are student and want to work for a short time then getting a VISAs won't be an issue.

I have worked in the US as a student and as an adult. It wasn't hard to get the necessary VISAs and the US is one of the hardest places to get into. Same with Australia. I also know people who emigrated there and they run a points system similar to what is being proposed.

Likewise it will be the same for people wanting to come here.

EU immigrants into the UK are net contributors to the UK purse. Non EU immigrants less so. The Leave campaign is focussing on EU immigration, spreading fear and lies.

Brexiters want to do exactly what you're claiming they won't.

 

[daylightrobber]

The difference is none of those fields propose laws and just in case you wanted to know. I don't like the idea of it in those other ares either e.g. an unelected bank of England.

I trust the electorate more than I trust the elite. I believe in democracy rather than people who think they know what is best for the little people.

That'll be the electorate that making decisions on the future of others without ever knowing enough of the relevant facts.

 

[Cypher]

EU immigrants into the UK are net contributors to the UK purse. Non EU immigrants less so. The Leave campaign is focussing on EU immigration, spreading fear and lies.

Brexiters want to do exactly what you're claiming they won't.

I don't see why that's relevant to the point I made. I was referring to the fear people have of not being able to work in the EU which is just nonsense.

As for the actual point you made. It depends on how you come to your figures. There's a lot of people who are either unemployed or underemployed simply because the jobs aren't available or the jobs that are available don't pay what benefits do. Immigration is a large part of that. Also I very much doubt it factors in what they then send out to their families abroad.

All I know is the wages have barely moved in twenty years, housing has shot up and we are seeing cuts to public services like health care. I'm not an economist but common sense tells me immigration and outsourcing has a large part to do with that.

Brexiters can want to do whatever they want. Ultimately they will need to be elected to do it first.

 

[Deleted member 28206]

Zzzz

 

[Cypher]

That'll be the electorate that making decisions on the future of others without ever knowing enough of the relevant facts.

"Many forms of government have been tried and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others that have been tried from time to time."

- Winston Churchill

 

[Huyton Layne]

Had a good laugh at this. Awful attempt at propaganda. What the video neglects to mention is that the single biggest threat to the NHS is the Tories, who run this country no matter whether the UK is part of the EU or not.
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=589833964526865&id=505084413001821

 

[peteblue]

No. Just saying that I believe that the more Europe does as a united unit the more it will achieve. The EU. promoting civilisation!

Yet they can't sign off on their accounts......

Corruption across the EU is a disgrace apart from the Western and Northern states......

 

[Rob17896]

That's because they want to paint everyone who would vote leave as little Englanders. The decision is simply how do you want to be governed. Either by an elected parliament or by a technocracy that is more or less controlled by corporate interests and lobby groups.

It is controlled by the member states actually. What is all this awful legislation forced upon us by the EU. All I see is a union of countries regulating to ensure standards and safety. The likes of Farage and other 'outside rights' dont like anything that slows down the process of making a fast few qui

Yet they can't sign off on their accounts......

Corruption across the EU is a disgrace apart from the Western and Northern states......

And..corruption pervades certain governments. The EU does not endorse corruption. Again we can see from your table that very high standards exist in the EU and they are places from which the mighty UK can learn something.
It appears that Greece is corrupt as hell which might be why Merkel has been tough.
It also shows individual countries are operating with autonomy.

 

[peteblue]

It is controlled by the member states actually. What is all this awful legislation forced upon us by the EU. All I see is a union of countries regulating to ensure standards and safety. The likes of Farage and other 'outside rights' dont like anything that slows down the process of making a fast few qui

And..corruption pervades certain governments. The EU does not endorse corruption. Again we can see from your table that very high standards exist in the EU and they are places from which the mighty UK can learn something.
It appears that Greece is corrupt as hell which might be why Merkel has been tough.
It also shows individual countries are operating with autonomy.

How can Merkel be tough on Greece, are we not all equal, who voted her in charge of the EU.....and this is yet another issue, the EU is stitched up by France and Germany for their own benefit.........

 

[Rob17896]

Why? What they have done to Southern Europe is far worse than any Tory government has done to the North.

Do you really think that when immigration causes our population of poor/working class people to increase and puts a strain on public services they would be any more generous than the Tories?

What we have seen points to the opposite.

Hang on.Greece has made a total balls of its economy and bankrupted itself. In order to borrow money it has had to adhere to spending cuts in order to get in shape to repay.
Now i dont believe in austerity as the best answer but Germany has managed itself better than most and is the prime lender in the eu. Austerity is harsh but bankrupty is harder. I really am sympathetic to the Greek people but it is their previous goverments that made the mess not the countries bailing them out. Greece has not left the euro because europe is its life raft.