The Moyes Era

[Brennan]

Thats said i think its a different play ground at Everton, look what Moyes has done, CL, Euro Qualification, consistent top 8 finishes, cup finals all on less then 5 mill a year and still people want his blood.

Oh come on !

He spent £80m over five seasons when we were challenging for Europe. Yes he sold Rooney and some other players (who he was smart to get rid of anyway, like Beattie) to bring his total net spend during that time to around £26m but this whole '£5m a season' line is highly deceptive.

When you consider that Rooney's £27m allowed him to buy seven players, it looks a bit different.

 

[Neiler]

Oh come on !

He spent £80m over five seasons when we were challenging for Europe. Yes he sold Rooney and some other players (who he was smart to get rid of anyway, like Beattie) to bring his total net spend during that time to around £26m but this whole '£5m a season' line is highly deceptive.

When you consider that Rooney's £27m allowed him to buy seven players, it looks a bit different.

26 mill (???) divided by 10 years lad =

 

[Brennan]

26 mill (???) divided by 10 years lad =

£26m was his net spend over five years, and as i have already said, net spend is deceptive.

Consider that he sold ONE player for £27m. Rather different to if he had sold 5 players for £5m each. Of course selling Rooney hurt us but the effect it had on our squad was largely mitigated by the fact he was able to buy:

Lescott
Johnson
Neville
Arteta

with that money.

 

[Jimmy1]

Its hard to disagree on our style, but has been marginally better of late.

Again for me, it comes down to resources and of the pitch stuff - its the constraints of the job that force the descions rather then otherwise, honestly if we played like Swansea and had had the same point total people would be up in arms. You cant take Arteta and Pienaar out of your team not replace them and expect not to play percentage football. This is my point really, managing Everton is like constantly trying to turn a pigs ear into a sows purse. Make no mistake we have no right even to be anywhere near seventh, or close to a cup final, i mean that. Thats not saying i lack ambition or Everton arent a big club in terms of past success, fanbase etc. I would expect a club with our budget to be fighting relegation every season, the fact we are not is David Moyes. The problem with Everton is more systemic, its goes up rather then down.

I have a suspicion if Moyes got the Spurs job, he may play is a very different way to be honest. Im not one who buys into the vouge compleatly of Rodgers and Martinez, i think there is context to their success - if you could call it that. I think if you said to either of them over the next ten years you can have the same success Everton have had over ten years with your clubs both would jump at it.

I made a similar point in another thread. Its no coincidence we get Pienaar back on loan and our Football improves dramatically. The fact is we lost our two best footballers in terms of keeping the ball and playing it on the deck. We replaced them with no-one. Yet we are 7th and could possibly finish this season with more points than last.

 

[Neiler]

£26m was his net spend over five years, and as i have already said, net spend is deceptive.

Consider that he sold ONE player for £27m. Rather different to if he had sold 5 players for £5m each. Of course selling Rooney hurt us but the effect it had on our squad was largely mitigated by the fact he was able to buy:

Lescott
Johnson
Neville
Arteta

with that money.

Just because you said net spend is deceptive doesnt mean your right. Im not sure what point your making here really mate.


Just to be pedantic the year we sold Rooney, we signed Cahill and Bent (before we sold Rooney), Beattie in Jan and Arteta on loan (post loosing Graveson), we actually qualified for the CL that year and the squad was weaker then the year before when we stayed up on the lowest points ever at the time. By that bench mark, ever since we got the Rooney money we havnt been as good. Just saying is all.

 

[Brennan]

Just because you said net spend is deceptive doesnt mean your right. Im not sure what point your making here really mate.


Just to be pedantic the year we sold Rooney, we signed Cahill and Bent (before we sold Rooney), Beattie in Jan and Arteta on loan (post loosing Graveson), we actually qualified for the CL that year and the squad was weaker then the year before when we stayed up on the lowest points ever at the time. By that bench mark, ever since we got the Rooney money we havnt been as good. Just saying is all.

Quite simple, my point is that saying he achieved all of those things on £5m a year is deceptive and spins the facts in his favour. He's sold two players for £20m+ since he has been here and all of that money was put back into the squad in the form of 10 players.

The 'net spend' isn't reflective of the whole story, just look at Liverpool, their net spend is only about £30m in the past two seasons but we all know they've wasted far more money than that in reality.

If you really want to evaluate the success of a manager, net spend doesn't do that job justice at all.

 

[Jimmy1]

The fact is that Moyes has to play the best hand with cards he's been dealt. It's **** for us supporters but Football ain't like it used to be. Homegrown talent isn't in an abundance and you've got to pay big money for the foreign talent that will keep you competing.

 

[Neiler]

Quite simple, my point is that saying he achieved all of those things on £5m a year is deceptive and spins the facts in his favour. He's sold two players for £20m+ since he has been here and all of that money was put back into the squad in the form of 10 players.

The 'net spend' isn't reflective of the whole story, just look at Liverpool, their net spend is only about £30m in the past two seasons but we all know they've wasted far more money than that in reality.

If you really want to evaluate the success of a manager, net spend doesn't do that job justice at all.

Now hang on a second, this all sounds very much like your own opinion rather then facts, want to name said ten players?

Your figures are very sketchy mate as are your recollection of detail and time line - we sold 20 mill worth of talent last summer (how many players was that) - spent nothing - sold again in Jan and signed two players.

Ok say in your world, the playing field between say Ferguson/Manchini and Moyes is equal as net spend is deceptive. I wonder what Norways net spend is over ten years. You citicise Davey for raising 40 mill, then use the words "only" for that lot spending 30 mill in two seasons - wonder what the comparitive figure is over ten years - but that prob not important as net spend is deceptive.

 

[steken1]

Why would a squad of player's who have consistently finished in the top 7-8 teams drop to the level of B'burn or Wolves just because Moyes left?

 

[davek]

The Moyes Era

 

[paulbefc]

£26m was his net spend over five years, and as i have already said, net spend is deceptive.

Consider that he sold ONE player for £27m. Rather different to if he had sold 5 players for £5m each. Of course selling Rooney hurt us but the effect it had on our squad was largely mitigated by the fact he was able to buy:

Lescott
Johnson
Neville
Arteta

with that money.

And pretty much no one could have spent that money any better. In fact, forget pretty much - no one would have spent that better.

 

[Goat]

Now hang on a second, this all sounds very much like your own opinion rather then facts, want to name said ten players?

Your figures are very sketchy mate as are your recollection of detail and time line - we sold 20 mill worth of talent last summer (how many players was that) - spent nothing - sold again in Jan and signed two players.

Ok say in your world, the playing field between say Ferguson/Manchini and Moyes is equal as net spend is deceptive. I wonder what Norways net spend is over ten years. You citicise Davey for raising 40 mill, then use the words "only" for that lot spending 30 mill in two seasons - wonder what the comparitive figure is over ten years - but that prob not important as net spend is deceptive.

Liverpools Net spend :
£35,350,000
-£5,150,000
-£8,650,000
£6,250,000
£39,850,000
£15,660,000
£25,640,000
£25,300,000

http://www.transferleague.co.uk/premiership-transfers/liverpool-transfers.html

 

[Goat]

Citys Net spend :

£48,250,000
£117,000,000
£99,000,000
£117,900,000
£39,120,000

/crys

 

[Brennan]

Now hang on a second, this all sounds very much like your own opinion rather then facts, want to name said ten players?

Your figures are very sketchy mate as are your recollection of detail and time line - we sold 20 mill worth of talent last summer (how many players was that) - spent nothing - sold again in Jan and signed two players.

Ok say in your world, the playing field between say Ferguson/Manchini and Moyes is equal as net spend is deceptive. I wonder what Norways net spend is over ten years. You citicise Davey for raising 40 mill, then use the words "only" for that lot spending 30 mill in two seasons - wonder what the comparitive figure is over ten years - but that prob not important as net spend is deceptive.

1) We sold Rooney for £27m in the summer of 2004, the following season we purchased Lescott, Johnson, Kroldrup, Arteta, Neville, Valente, and Van Der Meyde for a total of £27m.

We sold Joleon Lescott in the summer of 2009 for £22m, the same day we had purchased Bily for £9m, and we then went on to purchase Heitinga for £6m and Distin for £5m.

Good enough ? We also had a positive net spend the year before the Lescott deal, so it's not as if money was saved from a previous transfer window and spent on those three, the money went from Lescott straight into those three. Similar story with Rooney.

2) What has this summer got to do with anything ? We were clearly discussing the period during which we were making a sustained challenge for European places. Good attempt at a deflection though, which is what Moyes lovers like doing.

 

[Brennan]

And pretty much no one could have spent that money any better. In fact, forget pretty much - no one would have spent that better.

Meaningless statement really. Unless you think Moyes is the world's best manager and is also omniscient.