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The Moyes Era

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Brennan91 said:
Saying 'find me another manager who has done that' doesn't make sense either, as we all know Moyes is in a unique position. I would struggle to find many managers who have been in a top flight job for 10 years to begin with.

Having said that, Wenger has done the best job transfer wise of any manager i know of. Net spend of £5m since he has been at Arsenal, a figure which has seen them win titles and consistently be around the top 4. Net spend per season of about £300k ?

Although that goes back to my point about net spend being deceptive. When you actually look at the transfers you'll see that Wenger spent millions and millions of pounds for year after year and there have only actually been 5 seasons out of 16 that he has had a negative net spend. Over the last three seasons they have a net spend of -£48m, for example.
Click to expand...

I wasn't saying if you can't find one that there isn't one, like. In fact, you have found one in Wenger. Many a manager is short of funds compared to the big spenders and we are one of the least fortunate in that aspect. I don't quite know what you mean by "unique position" but I wouldn't say he is, financially. So many managers throughout Moyes' decade have had insufficient funds. What's different about Moyes is that it hasn't locked us into a financial bracket of the league.

That's an interesting point on Wenger. He's done wonders there. But what he's done so well is bringing in players like, Henry to give the most extreme example and turn them into world beaters. Fabregas is another. He's got a ridiculously good eye for a talent and a club which can attract the best and pay them well enough. He may well be the best at it. That's what's won him trophies and that's what's allowed him to spend millions, along with, like us, selling the occasional one on for a big price. It's not luck or big investment, it's good talent scouting and player development.

I'm NOT putting Moyes in Wenger's bracket for a second, after all, you mentioned him, but there are definite similarities and it's a GOOD thing that he's had millions to spend. If Moyes hadn't been so prolific in the transfer market, we wouldn't have spent £80m. At a club like this, you often have to make that money yourself as a manager by buying cheap, developing and then selling big. There aren't many who can do that as consistently as Moyes. Obviously Wenger is better but that's unrealistic.
 
Matt Damon said:
Thats not the only thing he needs to check!

Brennan91 has a history of making assertions that turn out to be utter NONSENSE.


I've got one thing to say to him: AT LEAST WE'RE NOT VILLA !
Click to expand...

Yeah, like when you said we'd be taken over last Summer. Good one Damon lad.

'I hope Liverpool win (The FA Cup) - Matt Damon - 15/4/2012'
 
Neiler said:
You need to check your transfer history mate and do your sums, before making wild statements from memory.

Anyway i agree Moyes is ace.
Click to expand...

£23m worth of players bought in the January transfer window and Summer transfer window which followed the sale of Rooney, according to your list of players. Not a million miles away from the initial fee not based on appearances. So the initial statement that Moyes bought ten players following the sales of Rooney and Lescott is perfectly accurate.

I may have made a mistake regarding the transfers of Johnson and Lescott, but at least i take the time to read other people's posts before i tell them they're wrong. That and i don't constantly try and change the subject by talking about the last three seasons when they were never what was being talked about in the first place.
 
Philw said:
Beg to differ. We may have lost a great talent in Rooney, but overall the squad improved.

Transfers that season...

In:
[TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]
Mikel Arteta​
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]
Real Sociedad​
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]Loan[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]31/01/2005[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5ECF9, align: left"]
Guillaume Plessis​
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5ECF9, align: left"]
Lens​
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5ECF9, align: left"]Free[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5ECF9, align: left"]28/01/2005[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]
James Beattie​
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]
Southampton​
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]£6 million[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]04/01/2005[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5ECF9, align: left"]
Eddy Bosnar​
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5ECF9, align: left"]
Sturm Graz​
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5ECF9, align: left"]Free[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5ECF9, align: left"]03/08/2004[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]
Tim Cahill​
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]
Millwall​
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]Undis.[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]23/07/2004[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5ECF9, align: left"]
Marcus Bent​
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5ECF9, align: left"]
Ipswich Town​
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5ECF9, align: left"]£450,000[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5ECF9, align: left"]23/06/2004[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Out:
[TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]
Nick Chadwick​
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]
Plymouth Argyle​
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]£250,000[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]08/02/2005[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5ECF9, align: left"]
Thomas Gravesen​
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5ECF9, align: left"]
Real Madrid​
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5ECF9, align: left"]3.5 million Euros[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5ECF9, align: left"]14/01/2005[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]
Kevin Campbell​
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]
West Bromwich Albion​
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]Free[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]10/01/2005[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5ECF9, align: left"]
Peter Clarke​
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5ECF9, align: left"]
Blackpool​
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5ECF9, align: left"]Undisclosed[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5ECF9, align: left"]17/09/2004[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]
Wayne Rooney​
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]
Manchester United​
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]Package that could rise to £30m[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]31/08/2004[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5ECF9, align: left"]
Tobias Linderoth​
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5ECF9, align: left"]
FC Copenhagen​
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5ECF9, align: left"]undisclosed[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5ECF9, align: left"]29/07/2004[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]
Tomasz Radzinski​
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]
Fulham​
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]Undisclosed[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]27/07/2004[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5ECF9, align: left"]
Steve Simonsen​
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5ECF9, align: left"]
N/A​
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5ECF9, align: left"]Released[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5ECF9, align: left"]17/05/2004[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

We didn't spend all the money until later the next season...

[TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]
Andy Van der Meyde​
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]
Inter Milan​
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]Undisclosed[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]31/08/2005[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5ECF9, align: left"]
Nuno Valente​
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5ECF9, align: left"]
Porto​
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5ECF9, align: left"]Undisclosed[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5ECF9, align: left"]28/08/2005[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]
Matteo Ferrari​
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]
Roma​
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]Loan[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]26/08/2005[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5ECF9, align: left"]
Phil Neville​
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5ECF9, align: left"]
Manchester United​
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5ECF9, align: left"]Undisclosed[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5ECF9, align: left"]04/08/2005[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]
Mikel Arteta​
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]
Real Sociedad​
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]£2 million[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]15/07/2005[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5ECF9, align: left"]
Per Kroldrup​
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5ECF9, align: left"]
Udinese​
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5ECF9, align: left"]£5 milion[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5ECF9, align: left"]27/06/2005[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]
Simon Davies​
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]
Tottenham​
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]£3.5m rising to £4m[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]26/05/2005[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Click to expand...


To be fair mate, Cahill and Bent were in the bag before Rooney went.

Hindsight is great thing and a testament to Moyes in finding players, if i remember correctly Cahill and Arteta were nobodys really - certainly not the players of the stature they are now or compariable to Rooney and Graveson who went to Real at the time. Arteta didnt even get a regular game in his first few months and took a good year to settle. Truth is went a whole season after Rooney went or at least six months without any reinforcements (Beattie sent of first game/Arteta was gash), while we lost our best player in the same Jan to Real. The following summer everyone was creaming themselves over Beattie and AVDM tbh, who knew the lessor known cheaper players would be gems - fair play to Davey like.
 

Brennan91 said:
£23m worth of players bought in the January transfer window and Summer transfer window which followed the sale of Rooney, according to your list of players. Not a million miles away from the initial fee not based on appearances. So the initial statement that Moyes bought ten players following the sales of Rooney and Lescott is perfectly accurate.

I may have made a mistake regarding the transfers of Johnson and Lescott, but at least i take the time to read other people's posts before i tell them they're wrong. That and i don't constantly try and change the subject by talking about the last three seasons when they were never what was being talked about in the first place.
Click to expand...





You haven't just gone of and checked have you mate.

Have you remembered to deduct the sale of players as well, its a very different figure from the one your arriving at.

Mate i really don't think you know what your talking about, we were talking about net spend on average of the tenure of the manager and you decided to make a point - that 5 mill net spend wasn't accurate/deceptive. Your arguing with yourself about the Rooney and Lescott transfer and tying yourself up in knots with wrong figures/transfers and years. Doesn't change the fact that Davey net spend is what it is year on year average. The reason you feel no one listening to you is because your arguing with your self, how can you say ignore the last few seasons and isn't relevant is beyond me.
 
Neiler said:
You haven't just gone of and checked have you mate.

Have you remembered to deduct the sale of players as well, its a very different figure from the one your arriving at.

Mate i really don't think you know what your talking about, we were talking about net spend on average of the tenure of the manager and you decided to make a point - that 5 mill net spend wasn't accurate/deceptive. Your arguing with yourself about the Rooney and Lescott transfer and tying yourself up in knots with wrong figures/transfers and years. Doesn't change the fact that Davey net spend is what it is year on year average. The reason you feel no one listening to you is because your arguing with your self, how can you say ignore the last few seasons is beyond me and isn't relevant is beyond me.
Click to expand...

I don't think he doesn't know what he's talking about. I know he doesn't.

Swansea. FFS.

This Brennan91 makes a post and changes position more times than the weather! I don't think even he knows what he's talking about.
 
Neiler said:
You haven't just gone of and checked have you mate.

Have you remembered to deduct the sale of players as well, its a very different figure from the one your arriving at.

Mate i really don't think you know what your talking about, we were talking about net spend on average of the tenure of the manager and you decided to make a point - that 5 mill net spend wasn't accurate/deceptive. Your arguing with yourself about the Rooney and Lescott transfer and tying yourself up in knots with wrong figures/transfers and years. Doesn't change the fact that Davey net spend is what it is year on year average. The reason you feel no one listening to you is because your arguing with your self, how can you say ignore the last few seasons and isn't relevant is beyond me.
Click to expand...

The last few seasons aren't relevant to his spending during the 'Europe years'.
 
Matt Damon said:
I don't think he doesn't know what he's talking about. I know he doesn't.

Swansea. FFS.

This Brennan91 makes a post and changes position more times than the weather! I don't think even he knows what he's talking about.
Click to expand...

Still waiting for the investment from last summer. Until you go back in time and make that happen you can hardly talk.
 
So he's got an eye for a player and can find a bargain. Great.

Has he shown he can use these players to develop the style of play and move the club forward? The answers a big fat no. His best finish was 8yrs ago. The style we play has hardly changed.

Net spend doesn't mean he's spent nothing. I've just gone through our side and we paid Circa.£60m for it, hardly buttons. The fact he generated most of that himself means nothing. It's par for the course for most in this league. He also has a bigger wage bill than most in this league.

To me there's as much sense in saying we'd be relegated without him as saying Villa would win the league without Mcleish.
 

steken1 said:
So he's got an eye for a player and can find a bargain. Great.

Has he shown he can use these players to develop the style of play and move the club forward? The answers a big fat no. His best finish was 8yrs ago. The style we play has hardly changed.

Net spend doesn't mean he's spent nothing. I've just gone through our side and we paid Circa.£60m for it, hardly buttons. The fact he generated most of that himself means nothing. It's par for the course for most in this league. He also has a bigger wage bill than most in this league.

To me there's as much sense in saying we'd be relegated without him as saying Villa would win the league without Mcleish.
Click to expand...

Yeah, defo.
 
steken1 said:
So he's got an eye for a player and can find a bargain. Great.

Has he shown he can use these players to develop the style of play and move the club forward? The answers a big fat no. His best finish was 8yrs ago. The style we play has hardly changed.

Net spend doesn't mean he's spent nothing. I've just gone through our side and we paid Circa.£60m for it, hardly buttons. The fact he generated most of that himself means nothing. It's par for the course for most in this league. He also has a bigger wage bill than most in this league.

To me there's as much sense in saying we'd be relegated without him as saying Villa would win the league without Mcleish.
Click to expand...

I'm no Moyes lover but.... are you high ?

Buying low and selling high or buying low and turning a player good is probably Moyes' greatest trait as a manager, he's done it pretty consistently for years.

Alex Ferguson would be the opposite to that. He's a much better tactician and man manager than Moyes is, but transfer wise he's spent £170m net since the inception of the premier league. I'm no fan of using net spend as a be all and end all but anybody can see that when it comes to getting value for money Fergie isn't the best. Then again, the argument could be made that one has to spend that much money to win the number of titles he has.
 
Brennan91 said:
I'm no Moyes lover but.... are you high ?

Buying low and selling high or buying low and turning a player good is probably Moyes' greatest trait as a manager, he's done it pretty consistently for years.

Alex Ferguson would be the opposite to that. He's a much better tactician and man manager than Moyes is, but transfer wise he's spent £170m net since the inception of the premier league. I'm no fan of using net spend as a be all and end all but anybody can see that when it comes to getting value for money Fergie isn't the best. Then again, the argument could be made that one has to spend that much money to win the number of titles he has.
Click to expand...

You must spread some reputation before giving it to Brennan91 again
 
Value for money. Hmmm

£170m divided by 20 = £8.5m a season.

Remind me how many trophies they have won for that.

Then go and tell me why they are a behemoth who are the only big spending club who actually generate what they spend themselves?

Then tell me why they have almost doubled their capacity?

Then come and talk to me about Value for Money.

Most managers have to sell to buy. Moyes is good at it. So what? When has it really paid off for us? Once with a player who was destined to be a great regardless of who managed him.
 

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