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The summer 2013 Everton transfer rumourZ thread

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ijjysmith said:
I've said this a lot mate, but who cares? I'm not arsed what other teams are spending. We know we have no money.

Look at QPR last year. Spent millions and went down.

We have a bloody good team already (well for the minute!) and I think we forget this sometimes.
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I think most of us care. You'd have to be lying if you say you don't... I always used to just ignore it, knowing it was a gnawing, growing concern in the back of my mind. It was alot easier 2006-2009 as there were far fewer teams with money and the clubs who had it did not spend in such disproportion as there is now. Birmingham, Middlesbrough, Newcastle, West Ham, Sunderland, Fulham all spent and didn't get close. Portsmouth, Spurs & Villa had better success but they spent considerably more and often finished below us anyway.

In the summer of 2007, before what I'd count as our best season in years (UEFA & League cup runs, great football, supreme defence, unbeaten through great slew of European and league matches) coincided with our biggest spending in years, and it went something like this:

Fulham
Bought: £25.25m
Sold: £5.5m
Total: £19.75m

Liverpool
Bought: £64.2m
Sold: £33.6m
Total £30.6m

Spurs
Bought: £57.5m
Sold: £14.5m
Total: £43m

Sunderland
Bought: £41m
Sold: £0
Total: £41m

Man City
Bought: £50.1m
Sold: £7m
Total: £43m


Portsmouth
Bought: £34m
Sold: £14m
Total: £20m

Villa
Bought: £18m
Sold: £8m
Total: £10m

Everton
Bought: £24.5m
Sold: £9.75m
Total £14.75m


So we were comfortably outspent by everyone except Villa, who spent £4m. But, before sales, we spent an impressive £24.5m. A good manager can do alot to improve a team with that much: we got Pienaar for £2m, Banes for £6m, Jagielka for £4m. They were some excellent deals.

Our spending has actually gone down. It beggars belief that these midtable, middle-of-the-road teams for whom 10th would be considered a good season can comfortably outspend us. I trust Martinez as one of the few who can give us a sustained, genuine chance of bridging that gap through investment in youth and the benefits of his tactical skills and transfer nous, but even still it can't be fought forever. Man City pissed over £40m up the wall that season and we laughed but now they are title winners. One wrong purchase from us can set us back years - the Lescott money could've been far better spent. If Kone fails to hit more than 10 goals or contribute significantly in some way then we will be cost dearly; he only cost £5m but he is our 'marquee' signing and has to succeed. Other clubs spend £5m on squad players, they don't have this pressure.

I just don't see how the Board can operate in broad daylight given how shocking their tenure has become.
 
Royal Blue Jersey said:
I think most of us care. You'd have to be lying if you say you don't... I always used to just ignore it, knowing it was a gnawing, growing concern in the back of my mind. It was alot easier 2006-2009 as there were far fewer teams with money and the clubs who had it did not spend in such disproportion as there is now. Birmingham, Middlesbrough, Newcastle, West Ham, Sunderland, Fulham all spent and didn't get close. Portsmouth, Spurs & Villa had better success but they spent considerably more and often finished below us anyway.

In the summer of 2007, before what I'd count as our best season in years (UEFA & League cup runs, great football, supreme defence, unbeaten through great slew of European and league matches) coincided with our biggest spending in years, and it went something like this:

Fulham
Bought: £25.25m
Sold: £5.5m
Total: £19.75m

Liverpool
Bought: £64.2m
Sold: £33.6m
Total £30.6m

Spurs
Bought: £57.5m
Sold: £14.5m
Total: £43m

Sunderland
Bought: £41m
Sold: £0
Total: £41m

Man City
Bought: £50.1m
Sold: £7m
Total: £43m


Portsmouth
Bought: £34m
Sold: £14m
Total: £20m

Villa
Bought: £18m
Sold: £8m
Total: £10m

Everton
Bought: £24.5m
Sold: £9.75m
Total £14.75m


So we were comfortably outspent by everyone except Villa, who spent £4m. But, before sales, we spent an impressive £24.5m. A good manager can do alot to improve a team with that much: we got Pienaar for £2m, Banes for £6m, Jagielka for £4m. They were some excellent deals.

Our spending has actually gone down. It beggars belief that these midtable, middle-of-the-road teams for whom 10th would be considered a good season can comfortably outspend us. I trust Martinez as one of the few who can give us a sustained, genuine chance of bridging that gap through investment in youth and the benefits of his tactical skills and transfer nous, but even still it can't be fought forever. Man City pissed over £40m up the wall that season and we laughed but now they are title winners. One wrong purchase from us can set us back years - the Lescott money could've been far better spent. If Kone fails to hit more than 10 goals or contribute significantly in some way then we will be cost dearly; he only cost £5m but he is our 'marquee' signing and has to succeed. Other clubs spend £5m on squad players, they don't have this pressure.

I just don't see how the Board can operate in broad daylight given how shocking their tenure has become.
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Very indepth post but unfortunately it's not even as simple as that.

The reasons we are apparently skint are many, and I won't get into it as theres a long thread elsewhere on this.

More importantly the reasons that other clubs are spending are many also. Southampton for one have basically gone through hell and come back with what seems like a clean slate, good finances and a rich owner ready to back the manager.

We can do nothing about this, and worrying serves no purpose. The positive way to look at it, as Ijjy says, is that there is plenty of history recent and past to show that spending is not enough and will not guarantee success, nor even improvement.

Having said that though my calm about what other clubs were doing was also based on knowing Moyes would have us up at least as best of the rest each season. Still very confident Martinez can maintain that, but can't be as sure and it would be understandable if not giving its his first year.
 
bicycleheader said:
Very indepth post but unfortunately it's not even as simple as that.

The reasons we are apparently skint are many, and I won't get into it as theres a long thread elsewhere on this.

More importantly the reasons that other clubs are spending are many also. Southampton for one have basically gone through hell and come back with what seems like a clean slate, good finances and a rich owner ready to back the manager.

We can do nothing about this, and worrying serves no purpose. The positive way to look at it, as Ijjy says, is that there is plenty of history recent and past to show that spending is not enough and will not guarantee success, nor even improvement.

Having said that though my calm about what other clubs were doing was also based on knowing Moyes would have us up at least as best of the rest each season. Still very confident Martinez can maintain that, but can't be as sure and it would be understandable if not giving its his first year.
Click to expand...

Thankyou but I'm not simplifying anything. I was asking rhetorically how these mid-table clubs could afford them, as in, if their expectations are upper middle table (8th at very best) and they are spent 4-500% more than us, how are our aims realistic if they are to challenge the top 4 or even the top 6?
There are three options. Either we lower our aims and have our expectations in line with our finances - 12th-14th would be an acceptable season in that case. Or we need to completely overhaul our financial structure so that we can compete with these teams, which is the kind of complex in-depth discussion you were referring to (they rarely get far, but they are the most important discussions) or we just hope that the skills of our manager alone can bridge the gap. The latter is the biggest gamble yet that's the one we're plumping for. It won't last forever - it can't last forever.
 

Royal Blue Jersey said:
Thankyou but I'm not simplifying anything. I was asking rhetorically how these mid-table clubs could afford them, as in, if their expectations are upper middle table (8th at very best) and they are spent 4-500% more than us, how are our aims realistic if they are to challenge the top 4 or even the top 6?
There are three options. Either we lower our aims and have our expectations in line with our finances - 12th-14th would be an acceptable season in that case. Or we need to completely overhaul our financial structure so that we can compete with these teams, which is the kind of complex in-depth discussion you were referring to (they rarely get far, but they are the most important discussions) or we just hope that the skills of our manager alone can bridge the gap. The latter is the biggest gamble yet that's the one we're plumping for. It won't last forever - it can't last forever.
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Sorry. didn't mean you were simplifying anything.
 
Royal Blue Jersey said:
Thankyou but I'm not simplifying anything. I was asking rhetorically how these mid-table clubs could afford them, as in, if their expectations are upper middle table (8th at very best) and they are spent 4-500% more than us, how are our aims realistic if they are to challenge the top 4 or even the top 6?
There are three options. Either we lower our aims and have our expectations in line with our finances - 12th-14th would be an acceptable season in that case. Or we need to completely overhaul our financial structure so that we can compete with these teams, which is the kind of complex in-depth discussion you were referring to (they rarely get far, but they are the most important discussions) or we just hope that the skills of our manager alone can bridge the gap. The latter is the biggest gamble yet that's the one we're plumping for. It won't last forever - it can't last forever.
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Well I was more talking about the pointlessness of stressing over the spending, rather than reassessing our aims and goals. Thats a whole other thing.

It's been mentioned a lot recently, and I think it's a fair point, that a lot of these clubs are building new teams to get to a higher level because the squads they have are not good enough for what they want. This is shown by the mentioned teams finishing in the bottom half or just having been promoted. They have to spend to do this. We however have a top 6 first team with a lot of experience and a slightly better squad than normal. We don't have the same urgent need, as much as we'd all like to see the signings.

It seems the Everton "model" is here to stay really with regards to purchases, even if the manager and style may change and if Martinez can keep us close to the same level this season then at least short term(next 5 years) I'd be confident in him to push us on with the same shrewd buying policy that Moyes used.

Longer term, no, it's not the way forward. Not the way to try get back to being a team challenging for a title or regularly being in the Champs League, but again the discussion for that will just get into the whole board issue again.
 
Great Dane said:
Fcuking love McCarthy at Everton, will IMO be better than Fellaini and will free up Barkley even more. A midfield of Gibson - Barkley - McCarthy would be superb.

If Fellaini and Baines are sold for £40 m. then there is money to spend on McCarthy, Marrone, Toby, Barry and even a couple of other good players.

I know I'm in a minority but I would not be against selling the two for £40 m.
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I'm with you here. I'm slightly concerned about Baines to be honest. Outstanding most of last year, but finished the last few months of the season poorly.

He's looked average pre season and was average on Saturday too. Nearly 29 years of age, I personally think a bid of around the 16 million mark would be good business.

I also appreciate I'll be in a very small minority here.
 

BlueLlama said:
Anyoen who thinks we will sign Luke Shaw is utterly deluded. He has just signed a long term contract with his home town club where he is guarenteed first team football. Saints, have more cash than us and have no need to sell.
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...have to agree with this. Its ok folk on here throwing up aspirational targets, but lets be realistic. We can't take it for granted that players will want to come to us. I actually wondered why Shaw wasn't the subject of a bid from a top 4 club. I suspect that will eventually happen.
Interesting point in the statement from Everton is that the offer was made last week. I think its obvious now that RM knew of the offer when he gave his interview to Football Focus. He said he wished the window had closed when the season started and added that players who want to leave will be allowed to go. For me this means if Baines and/or Fellaini now ask to move it will be the beginning of the end. Saying that, we need to be strong and ensure we get the going rate. I would also ask the players to put in a formal request if they want to leave.
 
Zodiak said:
I'm with you here. I'm slightly concerned about Baines to be honest. Outstanding most of last year, but finished the last few months of the season poorly.

He's looked average pre season and was average on Saturday too. Nearly 29 years of age, I personally think a bid of around the 16 million mark would be good business.

I also appreciate I'll be in a very small minority here.
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Never underestimate the value of having players like Baines and Felli in the team. To sell Baines would be silly, he's settled into our defence and has year on year contributed to some of our greatest attacks. He also hits our set pieces. Along with Felli's quality, you've got to remember the presence he is. A player like him is priceless when defending and attacking set pieces. A big powerful lad, and to replace him with McCarthy leaves us very limp in midfield.

Don't want to sell either of them. Wouldn't sell Baines at any price, i'd talk with bids of £23m+ for Felli, ONLY is McCarthy was not his chosen replacement.
 

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