This nurse Letby case

[davek]

I was making a general point about verdicts and the immediate public reaction to them. Nothing more.

...yes, which covers this case and @COYBL25 s attitude to crime and punishment.

 

[davek]

@roydo or @AndyC any chance this goes to the CA forum, as it’ll stop some people swerving it away from where it should be.

Hold on, there's a Current Affairs forum again?

 

[Alan Whittle]

The flip side of that would be, how many cases per 1,000 are found to be examples of a miscarriage of justice or at least a strong possibility of doing so?

One is too many in my opinion.

 

[Rita_Poon]

This is why we have the court of appeal too and whatnot.

That thing is on for a sizable kicking, in light of the Malkinson evidence that was suppressed. Also that the two eye witnesses that put him at the scene were well known petty criminals was suppressed in court. Who could have known them, and pressured them to provide such convenient false witness I wonder...

 

[Alan Whittle]

...yes, which covers this case and @COYBL25 s attitude to crime and punishment.

That’s your interpretation @davek, not mine.

 

[Eggs]

….verdicts apparently been given over a period of days but only released in totality today, hence why she stayed in her cell.

 

[peteblue]

I honestly wanted this to go one of two ways: a clear conviction based on a wealth of undenaiable evidence that she'd done what she was accused of, or a acquital based on the reverse. We got neither, I believe.

The evidence looked very ropey and the jury were clearly in some difficulty trying to make sense of the mess they were handed to give a judgement on.

It hugely difficult for a jury tbh. They are just ordinary people from all walks of life with different analytical capabilities. They had to make a decision on something like 22 charges in a complex case involving the death of children. That will have been torture for a least a couple of the jurists to get their heads around…certainly no easy task……..

 

[davek]

That’s your interpretation @davek, not mine.

How can you make a general statement and not apply it to a particular case?!

 

[GoldenToffee]

….verdicts apparently been given over a period of days but only released in totality today, hence why she stayed in her cell.

No Eggs, the verdicts were indeed staggered, and one of those verdicts she chose not to leave her cell. There shouldn't be an option to stay in your cell, the kin state of this country.

 

[peteblue]

Hold on, there's a Current Affairs forum again?

Indeed there is mate…..

 

[davek]

It hugely difficult for a jury tbh. They are just ordinary people from all walks of life with different analytical capabilities. They had to make a decision on something like 22 charges in a complex case involving the death of children. That will have been torture for a least a couple of the jurists to get their heads around…certainly no easy task……..

I hope they made the right decision with this one.

Who knows what's happened. Yes we have to trust the system to get it right, but sometines they dont and this case has been extraordinary in terms of the media coverage oprior to the trial.

 

[Blueclouds]

Must be one of the hardest and mentally draining case for the jury.

Is she going to prison or a hospital for the mentally ill.?

 

[COYBL25]

...yes, which covers this case and @COYBL25 s attitude to crime and punishment.

No, just to serial killing baby murderers.

 

[GoldenToffee]

Must be one of the hardest and mentally draining case for the jury.

Is she going to prison or a hospital for the mentally ill.?

She is not mentally ill mate otherwise she wouldn't have stood trial. Prison only for her. Got to be the clearest case in history for a full life sentence to be honest.

 

[PhilM]

One is too many in my opinion.

I wholeheartedly agree, however I think we've got to be careful to not make glib statements (not saying you are by the way) that hide away from reality.

The British legal system is far from perfect, and as such there'll sadly be examples of a miscarriage of justice. Yet, from experience, it's mostly a solid system.

The police investigate, the CPS decide on charges (not the police as many believe) and you still have to face a JP or for indictable offences a jury.

As technology improves and judicial systems tighten alongside shifts in perception, which they certainly have, the likelihood of serious examples will fall.

Hopefully, one day, there'll be none, but in reality that likelihood of that having soon is slim, unfortunately. But, let's not digress from today's example.

She has been found guilty of seven separate charges of murder, with their own evidence, as part of the longest murder case in UK history with huge focus on it.

We must hope and believe that the triad mentioned above have met the threshold in their own individual remits, and that this case is solid.

In terms of the attempted murder charges, if you've worked within the system it's often very hard to prove such a crime, hence why it's often charged as...

... GBH with intent. If there weren't so many cases, I suspect that's the avenue the CPS may have taken, and may still do so.

She is not mentally ill mate otherwise she wouldn't have stood trial. Prison only for her. Got to be the clearest case in history for a full life sentence to be honest.

It all depends on what definition of mentality ill you use: the social, medical or legal sense. Her actions as evidenced in court show that legally she ain't.

Medically, well she may one day be seen as mentally ill (e.g. having a mental condition - Munchausen syndrome by proxy et al.), but right now she isn't.

Socially, she's bang to rights on that one in my eyes - acting in a way that does not conform to the social norms of society in a far and extreme way.