This nurse Letby case

Rob17896 said:
I think humans are a mixed bag so not shocked. What does give me some disquiet is that all of the evidence seems circumstantial. A man has recently been released following conviction for deaths in a hospital, he was essentially convicted on deaths above the average number and that was a data flaw. I have no idea if she did it but have not heard or read anything that say's she definitely did. What I have read say's probably but is that enough?
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I get what you mean, but how many times did concerns need to be flagged to thoroughly investigate?
 
DrEFC said:
I get what you mean, but how many times did concerns need to be flagged to thoroughly investigate?
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That question will take centre stage now and will be likely used as a political football in much the same ways as the discussion over BBC reform went. It seems incredible to me that senior doctors weren't listened to and it took over a year for Letby's removal from the neonatal ward.

It runs contrary to what most people would expect to happen in similar circumstances - and I think you feel the same way. It's very unsettling.
 

davek said:
Ok thanks.

That sounds like the jury were all over the place to me. They weren't to blame though, the ropiness of a lot of the evidence sounds like it's left them unable to agree on most charges.
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Could you link me to the evidence you’ve gone over which has left you with this feeling of a miscarriage. I’ve only seen headlines, but would be interested to have a gander through the evidence you’re seeing that’s giving you the doubt on the jury verdict.
 
DrEFC said:
I get what you mean, but how many times did concerns need to be flagged to thoroughly investigate?
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If anything shows the problem here (and this is not a criticism of the individuals involved so much at is the system) its that senior consultants, when they had a well-founded and shared belief that a colleague was killing people, went to the management rather than the relevant authorities.
 
tsubaki said:
If anything shows the problem here (and this is not a criticism of the individuals involved so much at is the system) its that senior consultants, when they had a well-founded and shared belief that a colleague was killing people, went to the management rather than the relevant authorities.
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True. If I went straight to the police, and they didn't find anything, I'd lose my job.
 

tsubaki said:
If anything shows the problem here (and this is not a criticism of the individuals involved so much at is the system) its that senior consultants, when they had a well-founded and shared belief that a colleague was killing people, went to the management rather than the relevant authorities.
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Their hands were tied after they'd been forced to sign an apology to her. Had one of them then gone to the police it might have painted them in a very negative and bloodthirsty light. Imagine how bad it could have looked if all seven went. Could a consultant have encouraged a nurse to blow the whistle? Again what happens if that comes to the fore.

One of the questions for me at the moment is, the execs at the hospital that backed her against the consultants, were all no longer there some 12 months later. Did they all get promotions? Took sideways steps? Retired? How did that happen.
I'm speculating now, did the consultants complain about the involvement of the execs when it came to letby (or someone or something else for that matter)? was there a managerial merry-go-round to clear the air? Again I alluded to this earlier - how was she allowed to stay on the ward under those same consultants. Without working in it, and so knowing for sure, it seems the working environment was toxic and that becomes oppressive eventually. What was the turnover of staff like, anyone retired with good or bad memories of the place for instance. I'd expect any loss of life on such units to be devastating to all involved, that this particular unit had such worryingly high numbers of mortality rates (want to be more delicate than that here but am mildly hung over*) that the atmosphere must have been gloomy. The worry for the babies and the possibility of yet more devastated families is more than anxiety inducing.
There's means in other workplaces for anonymous whistle blowing, I expect there is in the nhs, there was concern enough from a group of consultants and no one else?
There'll be more to consider yet. Tragically sad.
 
While what has happened is tragic and none us us not directly involved can imagine the pain felt by those closely involved, a further tragedy will be visited on the victims involved when they carry out their review into what went wrong and no one is held responsible, no significant changes are made and they trot out the usual mantra “lessons have been learned “ and we all know that while lessons have been learned if it costs anything to implement changes nothing will be done. If it is a political choice to put money into public services that will benefit the many this government will go the opposite direction and give that money to the super rich on the illusion that the crumbs that fall from their table will sustain the masses.
 

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