Today’s Football 2019/20 Season

[cityfanrob]

You will have to win every game by 2/3 goals and be superb all season, because this VAR will NOT be applied evenly.

City winning the PL each season is not in the interests of "the product". Be prepared to be shafted at critical points this season as that 'kin lot get handed a title they haven't been able to win fair and square for 30 years.

Hard to disagree with that right now tbh.

I was actually looking forward to VAR being brought in, don't get me wrong City have certainly had fortunate decisions in the past but I thought VAR would even everything out nicely. So far it just looks like another level of uncertainty which allows for even more ambiguous interpretation.

 

[ClausThomsen]

And what about penalty incidents - called and uncalled?

Video Assistant Referees Penalty Decisions Explained | VAR | Premier League

For information on how Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will operate, including frequently asked questions and video explanations, visit the official website of the Premier League.

www.premierleague.com

All penalties awarded in the Premier League will automatically be checked by the Video Assistant Referee (VAR), who will also check for possible penalties not given by the on-field referee.

For penalties awarded the VAR will check for any infringements by the attacking team in the attacking possession phase that led to the penalty as well as the incident for which the penalty was awarded.

For factual decisions such as offside or the ball being out of play in the build-up, the VAR will inform the referee, who will overturn any penalty awarded.

For subjective penalty decisions, such as for a foul or for a handball, the VAR will look to identify a “clear and obvious error”.

The referee will explain his decision to the VAR and what he has seen.

If the evidence provided to the VAR by the broadcast footage does not accord with what the referee believes he has seen, then the VAR can recommend an overturn.

The final decision will remain with the on-field referee.

If a penalty decision is overturned with no infringement by the attacking team, play will restart with an uncontested drop ball for the defending team.

Slightly different approach where a goal hasn't been scored. Subjective decisions are allowed to stand where there isn't a clear and obvious error and if the ref can give a viable and understandable reason for their decision then VAR doesn't have the final say.

 

[ijjysmith]

Wasn’t today’s handball one just the new handball rule though?

Rather than it being VAR at fault?

 

[ClausThomsen]

And what about penalty incidents - called and uncalled?

EDIT.

Here it is:

"For subjective penalty decisions, such as for a foul or for a handball, the VAR will look to identify a “clear and obvious error”."

So there's the scope for fixing outcomes.

There's always been scope for fixing outcomes. Just as there has always been scope for paranoid conspiracy theories.

 

[ClausThomsen]

Wasn’t today’s handball one just the new handball rule though?

Rather than it being VAR at fault?

Yes. But people who don't understand that prefer to use it as a counter-argument to VAR. If anything VAR is helping to highlight ridiculous rules and may accelerate sensible law changes.

 

[davek]

Apparently it’s in London, not even in the ground. News to me that all goals are VAR’d.

Goals getting assessed I'm ok(ish) with. But this system sells itself on assessing trhe validity of decisions GIVEN...but look at the rule on pens: "subjective penalty decisions, such as for a foul or for a handball, the VAR will look to identify a “clear and obvious error”...that clear and obvious error btw will also be made on an incident the ref looks at and waves play on for. It can be dragged back if need be. The choice, for example today at City, was not to correct the ref when City had a hell of a shout for a pen.

VAR is open to anonymous people engineering a title for any team the PL football industry want. There's no checks and balances on this, as there is with a number of refs week in week out getting a team penalised and out of a title challenge / giving rhem a leg up.

Of course, we can all get used to any system in time, but those one erodes all faith that there's a clear winner of anything.

 

[dublinbluenose]

Wasn’t today’s handball one just the new handball rule though?

Rather than it being VAR at fault?

Yes, it's bonkers. VAR in a weird way is pointing out how ridiculous the rule is.

 

[davek]

There's always been scope for fixing outcomes. Just as there has always been scope for paranoid conspiracy theories.

You've been posting here explaing VAR and its virtues. Now you're saying it's just another system that can be used for corruption of an outcome.

Thanks.

 

[davek]

Hard to disagree with that right now tbh.

I was actually looking forward to VAR being brought in, don't get me wrong City have certainly had fortunate decisions in the past but I thought VAR would even everything out nicely. So far it just looks like another level of uncertainty which allows for even more ambiguous interpretation.

As I said already here: Liverpool WILL be penalised by VAR. But those decisions when they come wont be critical ones. The stats at the end of the season on winner and RU for the title wont differ that much concerning VAR decisions, but the impact those decisions had on points won certainly will be different.

 

[scotchbutterpin]

City should have had a pen via VAR in the first half. I reckon they are still unsure about implementing it correctly and are just making it up as they go along so far. It will even out over the season. City will get about 10 goals less this year though - they were always getting offside goals last few years.

 

[Deleted member 38674]

Ok. Explain why the action above does not constitute a penalty. Specifically, please comment on the whereabouts of Lamela's arms, legs and bodyweight as the cross comes over.

It’s clumsy but you’d be giving penalties off every corner if you gave that. Rodri’s right arm is around Lamela’s neck. Six of one for me, mate. I can see why Oliver didn’t give it at 1st glance.... and he had a very good look and the refs in Stockley Park didn’t see enough either.

Tussles happen on every corner and there needs to be an element of arms and shoving. It’s a subjective judgement call as to where you draw the line. One persons block is anothers obstruction. This is very clumsy from Lamela and, had it been given by Oliver, I strongly doubt it would have been overturned.

As he didn’t give it, it wasn’t THAT nailed on that they felt it was right to overturn it. I’d have to agree.

 

[davek]

Video Assistant Referees Penalty Decisions Explained | VAR | Premier League

For information on how Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will operate, including frequently asked questions and video explanations, visit the official website of the Premier League.

www.premierleague.com

Slightly different approach where a goal hasn't been scored. Subjective decisions are allowed to stand where there isn't a clear and obvious error and if the ref can give a viable and understandable reason for their decision then VAR doesn't have the final say.

...and what ref wanting to keep their job will go against the advice of VAR??

 

[Old Blue 2]

Is it though? The Spurs defender pulls Laporte's arm just before the ball comes in meaning it's outstretched and in position for the ball to hit it.

I commented on that earlier in the thread in post #2396:
"...What VAR missed was the second before the ball reached Laporte and the Spurs defender. The Spurs defender pulled on Laporte's left arm and his shirt sleeve. Take a look on MOTD tonight to see what I mean. As that was the first offence it should have been a penalty, or, if a final decision is not made for a few seconds to see if there is an advantage to be played, the goal should have stood..."

City robbed of two points...

 

[ClausThomsen]

Goals getting assessed I'm ok(ish) with. But this system sells itself on assessing trhe validity of decisions GIVEN...but look at the rule on pens: "subjective penalty decisions, such as for a foul or for a handball, the VAR will look to identify a “clear and obvious error”...that clear and obvious error btw will also be made on an incident the ref looks at and waves play on for. It can be dragged back if need be. The choice, for example today at City, was not to correct the ref when City had a hell of a shout for a pen.

But was it an understandable error from the refs point of view? Would it have been looked upon as a stand-out particularly poor decision last season or the year before? The VAR officials may have recommended an overturn which the ref chose not to do - is that the VAR officials fault?

VAR is open to anonymous people engineering a title for any team the PL football industry want. There's no checks and balances on this, as there is with a number of refs week in week out getting a team penalised and out of a title challenge / giving rhem a leg up.

Of course, we can all get used to any system in time, but those one erodes all faith that there's a clear winner of anything.

The VAR officials are subject to the same checks and balances as all officials. They're all assessed the same way - if your problem is enabling corruption then VAR is a symptom of the disease, not the cause. If it really is a massive conspiracy to hand the title to the RS then why has it took so long and how did they manage not to scupper City somehow last year?

 

[dublinbluenose]

The system the FA has gone with is wide open to abuse by betting syndicate. Decisions being made out of view of scrutiny. I'd be far more worried about that.