Today’s Football 2019/20 Season

[ClausThomsen]

You've been posting here explaing VAR and its virtues. Now you're saying it's just another system that can be used for corruption of an outcome.

Thanks.

Please point out where I've stated that VAR is just another system that can be used for corruption. If you want to see conspiracy everywhere then you're inevitably going to see VAR through that lens.

...and what ref wanting to keep their job will go against the advice of VAR??

I may have missed the press release but I wasn't aware this was a sackable offence. Those in charge of implementing VAR have openly stated that if the refs decision is understandable and isn't demonstrably a clear and obvious error then their ruling will be allowed to stand.

Though that's what they would say given the conspiracy that abounds....the conspirators that still couldn't somehow get the RS to win the PL with 97 points and even actively hampered their best laid plans with goal-line technology that is somehow incapable of being misused for their nefarious deeds. This year though....

 

[davek]

But was it an understandable error from the refs point of view? Would it have been looked upon as a stand-out particularly poor decision last season or the year before? The VAR officials may have recommended an overturn which the ref chose not to do - is that the VAR officials fault?

"May have". And therein lies the flaw at the heart of any defence of this system. We dont KNOW what they did or didn't do. As far as any supporter is concerned we dont know if these incidents are checked or not. It's all subjective and not the great leap forward into objectivity claimed for it.

It gets OBVIOUS stuff right, simply because all goals are checked and they take the time to do it. There is massive pressure for VAR not to slow the game down so much it makes it unwatchable, and that will lead to a lot of decisions being waved on in the VAR room.

The VAR officials are subject to the same checks and balances as all officials. They're all assessed the same way - if your problem is enabling corruption then VAR is a symptom of the disease, not the cause. If it really is a massive conspiracy to hand the title to the RS then why has it took so long and how did they manage not to scupper City somehow last year?

You're counterposing my fears (or conspiracies as you prefer) with your own belief in a system - a system open to enormous subjective decision making.

 

[kenada_blue]

Wasn’t today’s handball one just the new handball rule though?

Rather than it being VAR at fault?

Which wouldn't have been spotted without VAR.

But yet it failed to spot other infringement of the rules with the Rodri incident.

Both kinda go hand in hand. Stupid rule change probably with VAR in mind.

 

[davek]

Please point out where I've stated that VAR is just another system that can be used for corruption. If you want to see conspiracy everywhere then you're inevitably going to see VAR through that lens.

I said there's scope under VAR for fixing outcomes; you said there's always been scope for fixing outcomes. The obvious inference was that you knew VAR was a continuation of that possibility.

But if you're not saying that, you really are up against it: there's human decision making here. Do you think these people live in a vacuum and make purely rational decisions?

 

[Azza]

Fully expect Danny Mills to talk some absolute **** tonight.

 

[ijjysmith]

Which wouldn't have been spotted without VAR.

But yet it failed to spot other infringement of the rules with the Rodri incident.

Both kinda go hand in hand. Stupid rule change probably with VAR in mind.

Well yeah. But VAR just spotted the new rule. No rule no disallowed goal.

 

[ClausThomsen]

"May have". And therein lies the flaw at the heart of any defence of this system. We dont KNOW what they did or didn't do. As far as any supporter is concerned we dont know if these incidents are checked or not. It's all subjective and not the great leap forward into objectivity claimed for it.

It gets OBVIOUS stuff right, simply because all goals are checked and they take the time to do it. There is massive pressure for VAR not to slow the game down so much it makes it unwatchable, and that will lead to a lot of decisions being waved on in the VAR room.



You're counterposing my fears (or conspiracies as you prefer) with your own belief in a system - a system open to enormous subjective decision making.

OBVIOUS stuff right is surely better than OBVIOUS stuff wrong though? I have no belief that VAR is leading into a golden age of zero incorrect decisions but it's demonstrably suitable for increasing the number of correct decisions and reducing the the number of incorrect decisons.

Your fears around VAR are seemingly based on a powerful group conspiring secretly to dishonestly influence the outcome of games and doing this under the guise of improving the decisions made in games. It does sound a bit like a conspiracy.

 

[ijjysmith]

That Newcastle team is grim.

 

[davek]

OBVIOUS stuff right is surely better than OBVIOUS stuff wrong though? I have no belief that VAR is leading into a golden age of zero incorrect decisions but it's demonstrably suitable for increasing the number of correct decisions and reducing the the number of incorrect decisons.

Your fears around VAR are seemingly based on a powerful group conspiring secretly to dishonestly influence the outcome of games and doing this under the guise of improving the decisions made in games. It does sound a bit like a conspiracy.

It sounds to me like you haven't got your head around the fact that this is a system that's created by, and run by, humans - with all the potential for subjective decision making that entails. You prefer to ignore that obvious fact and call anyone who sees the scope for abuse a "conspiracy theorist"...which is, of course, the last refuge of the scoundrel.

 

[Frang]

This tom pooki looks decent

 

[ToffeeTim]

That Newcastle team is grim.

Unless this Joelinton lad turns out to the quality, then I think they are in serious trouble.

 

[davek]

Ok. Explain why the action above does not constitute a penalty. Specifically, please comment on the whereabouts of Lamela's arms, legs and bodyweight as the cross comes over.

I cant understand that, because Ive been told this evening on here that - and I quote - VAR is "demonstrably suitable for increasing the number of correct decisions and reducing the the number of incorrect decisons."

 

[ClausThomsen]

It sounds to me like you haven't got your head around the fact that this is a system that's created by, and run by, humans - with all the potential for subjective decision making that entails. You prefer to ignore that obvious fact and call anyone who sees the scope for abuse a "conspiracy theorist"...which is, of course, the last refuge of the scoundrel.

It has the potential for subjective decision making. I completely agree with that.

It also has the potential to assist those decision makers to make the correct calls and help ensure there are less serious errors. Do you agree with that?

I cant understand that, because Ive been told this evening on here that - and I quote - VAR is "demonstrably suitable for increasing the number of correct decisions and reducing the the number of incorrect decisons."

Over the course of a 2 year worldwide trial and not one game this afternoon. You'll note I didn't say eliminating incorrect decisions.

 

[Azza]

Unless this Joelinton lad turns out to the quality, then I think they are in serious trouble.

£40m... We should be able to get at least £100m for DCL!

 

[LostLegend]

Pukki setting himself up to be this seasons ‘Michu’

Could be key to Norwich’s fight against the drop this season. First goal was quality.