Tom Cleverley

[Chang Elephant]

he isn't the answer to our left side midfield problems, we need better than Cleverley.

yeah but when there's a few injuries and people need a rest, he's useful ?

 

[longers]

When so many people are misquoting, inventing reactions, quoting spurious stats and speculating about transfer values out of context then it does scream agenda. Can only guess what it is but assume it's possibly boy crushes on Mirallas. So be interested to know as an alternative what they feel his value is and who'd come in for him.

or much more likely, they just don't have the same opinion as you with regards to one player in the squad.

yeah but when there's a few injuries and people need a rest, he's useful ?

Yes, he can be a useful utility player.

 

[oldblue]

Rightly criticise.

He went utterly missing in the biggest game of our season and was hopeless against Carlisle.

He's been good for two games and the usual 'Osman Qualifier' scales have fallen on everyone's eyes - works hard, good engine and the absolute best one 'tidy'.

This season is his most effective ever and he has three assists.

Three. A man who once played in the same team as Wayne Rooney and Robin Van Persie managed three assists.

He now plays in the same team as Lukaku, one of our most natural finishers ever, and he has three. The same number as Kone.

I'm sorry to say but this smells of someone only looking at stats and not watching the game. Would you consider that Cleverley setting Lennon free to tee up a goal on a plate in the cup as not worth mentioning because he didn't make the assist stats?

 

[oldblue]

or much more likely, they just don't have the same opinion as you with regards to one player in the squad.

Then why ignore what people are saying, make up opinions and quote unreferenced supporters from other clubs out of context. Happy to be disagreed with but also got a bit of experience at syphoning out propaganda

 

[longers]

Then why ignore what people are saying, make up opinions and quote unreferenced supporters from other clubs out of context. Happy to be disagreed with but also got a bit of experience at syphoning out propaganda

I think you're taking this all a bit too seriously, some people think he's average and would rather other players play ahead of him... it's that simple.

No propaganda, no conspiracies, no agendas... they just don't rate him as much as you and some others do.

 

[Dymak]

yeah but when there's a few injuries and people need a rest, he's useful ?

Yes, I haven't called him crap at all, and he was a great free transfer, but I think we would have been robbed if we had spent something like 10 million on him. I don't think he is worth that much.

 

[oldblue]

I think you're taking this all a bit too seriously, some people think he's average and would rather other players play ahead of him... it's that simple.

No propaganda, no conspiracies, no agendas... they just don't rate him as much as you and some others do.

Not taking it too seriously at all. Enjoy a debate on a player but as I said it's only fun, interesting and worth having when it's a genuine opinion and a pretty good sign it's not is when people continually ignore what people say and argue with their own idea of what people are saying or look for stats out of context.
Actually think you're taking yourself too seriously if you think someone suggesting you are blinded by a crush is conspiratorial level.

 

[graeme2911]

Not sure what this point is. If Rom is scoring every week because of someone being alongside him then yes we play them both.
Cleverley is making it easier for three or four around him to play their game because they normally always receive the ball in space and at the right pace and with good options around them.
But if you think these things are bare minimum then assume you'd not allow anyone without them near to the team

I don't see him making 3 or 4 players around him raise their game though, that's my point. Or one of them.
He's not a bad player, not by any stretch. He has had two good games this week, but we have to remember both were against piss poor teams. This is his highest level of ability...he doesn't get any better...and he rarely plays at this level for any length of time.

Mad that you get berated on here for wanting a better player starting for Everton.

The value put on players as I keep repeating is down to where they play, who you are buying off and the level of hype. And again when you start misquoting to make a point then you are usually more determined to appear right than make valid arguments. So as I actually said if he continues to grow in confidence he would be as valuable as any English midfielder and we'd be daft to sell him I can't really discuss your quotation of 25 mill.
He was considered to be a potential replacement for Scholes at one point by better judges than you or me. Not sure that's close to being true but the potential is definitely there

He's 26 years old. It is no longer potential.

The level you see him playing at most weeks is his level. When he has a decent game like the two this week that's him in form playing above his normal level, not an indication of him improving with another level to go to.

 

[longers]

Not taking it too seriously at all. Enjoy a debate on a player but as I said it's only fun, interesting and worth having when it's a genuine opinion and a pretty good sign it's not is when people continually ignore what people say and argue with their own idea of what people are saying or look for stats out of context.
Actually think you're taking yourself too seriously if you think someone suggesting you are blinded by a crush is conspiratorial level.

well you brought up agenda and propaganda, may as well chuck in conspiracies as well

 

[oldblue]

Yes, I haven't called him crap at all, and he was a great free transfer, but I think we would have been robbed if we had spent something like 10 million on him. I don't think he is worth that much.

Bang average is pretty close though. You seem obsessed with random monetary values. I got to assume this is about something other than football

 

[oldblue]

well you brought up agenda and propaganda, may as well chuck in conspiracies as well

Yeah you may as well as you seem to base most of what you're saying on fantasy

 

[longers]

Yeah you may as well as you seem to base most of what you're saying on fantasy

The same fantasy that has you imagining people have an agenda against him and are using propaganda to prove their points ?

It's as simple as some people rating him and some people not rating him, why you can't get your head around this is beyond me. No ones even gunned him down that hard. You'd think everyone was calling him a useless wasteman given how precious you and the logan guy are being.

We're allowed different opinions, its ok... everything will be fine mate.

 

[catcherintherye]

He reminds of Lallana really. Quite a clever player, good at pressing, chips in with he old goal and assist and can raise his game in a good team, but in all honesty won't stand out in a poorer team. Basically he blends in.

ON a free transfer that has been an excellent signing. For 26 million a waste of money.

 

[oldblue]

I don't see him making 3 or 4 players around him raise their game though, that's my point. Or one of them.
He's not a bad player, not by any stretch. He has had two good games this week, but we have to remember both were against piss poor teams. This is his highest level of ability...he doesn't get any better...and he rarely plays at this level for any length of time.

Mad that you get berated on here for wanting a better player starting for Everton.


He's 26 years old. It is no longer potential.

The level you see him playing at most weeks is his level. When he has a decent game like the two this week that's him in form playing above his normal level, not an indication of him improving with another level to go to.

So much of this seems massively judgmental and out of context for a player who has been here half a season and struggled with injury. And potential can be realised at any age as several of our finest are testament to. It usually involves being at the right club at the right time.
He is generally loved and rated by managers including the most successful one in English history, but can have supporters on his back. The main criticism at United was that he isn't Paul Scholes. Well guess what, nobody they've had since is either.
Hard to prove the time and space he gives other players but I can only suggest watching how quickly they receive it when they've got space and how much time they seem to have when they receive it, as well as how often he's there as an option.
Doesn't sound sexy but I reckon Rom, Ross and Lennon absolutely love playing with him

 

[oldblue]

The same fantasy that has you imagining people have an agenda against him and are using propaganda to prove their points ?

It's as simple as some people rating him and some people not rating him, why you can't get your head around this is beyond me. No ones even gunned him down that hard. You'd think everyone was calling him a useless wasteman given how precious you and the logan guy are being.

We're allowed different opinions, its ok... everything will be fine mate.

Misquoting what people are saying and inventing opinions is a sign of propaganda. As is quoting stats without context.
Just think if you're determined to make a point badly enough that you keep doing that then you are probably taking yourself too seriously.
Just what I think and we all need a bit of a bs filter.