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Tom Cleverley

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Dymak said:
It was you who said his finishing was dangerous, and yet he has a pitiful record of 1 in 17. And how is referring to his actual goal scoring record for Everton out of context? You seem to be having some kind of breakdown just because the rest of the world doesn't share your infatuation with Tom Cleverley.
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Also interesting that a couple of you are continually suggesting that people calmly calling you out for daft opinions are having breakdowns.
Do you consider yourselves master trolls rather than just irritating?
This might be where all this is going wrong
 
Hong Kong Phooey said:
Tom Cleverley is playing very well and we look a lot more solid defensively with both him, and Lennon in the wide areas as both have terrific work rate and do the defensive stuff as well as the attacking stuff.
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We have looked pretty balanced with him out on the left. He links up well with Oviedo and gets back to help out and looks to get involved when moving in-field. He might not be as talented as some of our other players but he has increased work rate to compensate.

I'm a bit confused by the whole debate on here.

Is he a good signing on a free transfer? Yes
Does he make a good contribution when he plays? Yes
Is he worth £25m? No
Would we prefer a Yarmolenko (or similar) in the side? Yes

I'm not sure that anyone would disagree with any of the above but yet there appear to be people falling out over left, right and centre.

I don't see why people feel the need to nit-pick over every little sentence that is posted on here and seeing people commenting on typo's, spelling and grammatical errors is depressing.
 
oldblue said:
Well can't be bothered referring yet again to what I actually said but just keep repeating that if you are arguing with opinions people haven't actually got then this isn't a discussion it's some kind of therapeutic thing you need.
And I'm pointing out that there is no association between your stat and his value. Again could repeat the reasons why and suggest you look up the difference between qualitative and quantitative research. In fact just look up research.
None of this is even that important though when you keep quoting a market value that nobody but you has put on him.
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What? The fact that Cleverley has such a poor goal scoring record is something that can be positively quantified, and it absolutely will have an effect on his monetary value as a footballer. OK, so now that you agree that the idea of him being in the top bracket of midfielders that are worth well over 20 million is preposterous, how much do you think he is worth? I have already said that I think he is worth less than 10 million.
 
oldblue said:
Also interesting that a couple of you are continually suggesting that people calmly calling you out for daft opinions are having breakdowns.
Do you consider yourselves master trolls rather than just irritating?
This might be where all this is going wrong
Click to expand...

You haven't called anyone out mate, nor is anyone trolling, they just don't agree with your opinion on Cleverley.
 

Dymak said:
What? The fact that Cleverley has such a poor goal scoring record is something that can be positively quantified, and it absolutely will have an effect on his monetary value as a footballer. OK, so now that you agree that the idea of him being in the top bracket of midfielders that are worth well over 20 million is preposterous, how much do you think he is worth? I have already said that I think he is worth less than 10 million.
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Okay. I don't know why I'm continually replying to someone just arguing with themselves but here goes again.
Stats are useless out of context. Especially when they don't reflect a longer period and ignore all other relevant qualities. And the reason I suggested qualitative research is because quantitative research is as easy to lead to as huge errors as you have made.
Also think you can read back to my many replies on his value, it would have saved time if you'd read them at the time rather than imagined the replies you'd like.
 
oldblue said:
Okay. I don't know why I'm continually replying to someone just arguing with themself but here goes again.
Stats are useless out of context. Especially when they don't reflect a longer period and ignore all other relevant qualities. And the reason I suggested qualitative research is because quantitative research is as easy to lead to huge errors as you have made.
Also think you can read back to my many replies on his value, it would have saved time if you'd read them at the time rather than imagined the replies you'd like.
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But his goalscoring record isnt out of context and is entirely relevant when discussing the value of Tom Cleverley. I believe you have said that it would be possible for Cleverley to be as valuable as any other English midfielder, but I don't believe you have actually stated a value. If you have then fair enough, but could you repeat it please, as I must have missed it?
 
oldblue said:
Just out of interest, what is my opinion on Cleverley. No way I can defend it until you've made it up for me
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Jesus. You said his finishing was dangerous, and something like he could be as valuable as any other English midfielder, that might not be verbatim but I can't be arsed checking.
 

Dymak said:
But his goalscoring record isnt out of context and is entirely relevant when discussing the value of Tom Cleverley. I believe you have said that it would be possible for Cleverley to be as valuable as any other English midfielder, but I don't believe you have actually stated a value. If you have then fair enough, but could you repeat it please, as I must have missed it?
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Nah. I think it'd be better if you read back through it all rather than me seeing how you weren't paying attention at the time but still kept claiming to quote it.
And yes goalscoring can be one of the many factors relevant to a player's valuation. But even as one of the many factors it's best to take an overall view than select a timescale and ignore all other factors to prove a point.
It was this method Barca used when they decided to stick with Iniesta while Jordan Rhodes became available
 
Dymak said:
Jesus. You said his finishing was dangerous, and something like he could be as valuable as any other English midfielder, that might not be verbatim but I can't be arsed checking.
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Well some of its getting closer but even then it was all qualified.
Now if you'd just paid attention rather than being naughty then you wouldn't have wasted both of our time.
Do you think this is fun for any of us?
 
oldblue said:
Nah. I think it'd be better if you read back through it all rather than me seeing how you weren't paying attention at the time but still kept claiming to quote it.
And yes goalscoring can be one of the many factors relevant to a player's valuation. But even as one of the many factors it's best to take an overall view than select a timescale and ignore all other factors to prove a point.
It was this method Barca used when they decided to stick with Iniesta while Jordan Rhodes became available
Click to expand...

Well what timescale do you want to look at then? I think you will find his goal scoring record has been poor throughout his career. Anyway I think we will leave it there mate, as you clearly have a problem with people who don't share your opinion on Cleverley.
 
Dymak said:
Well what timescale do you want to look at then? I think you will find his goal scoring record has been poor throughout his career. Anyway I think we will leave it there mate, as you clearly have a problem with people who don't share your opinion on Cleverley.
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I did mention his goalscoring record as 1 in 7 through his career earlier but again why worry about what people are saying when you've got a point to prove.
Don't have problem with anyone's opinion on any player. Just feel like it's okay to point out when people are continually making stuff up
 

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