Tom Cleverley

[neil999]

played 22 games when utd won the title...

 

[bicycleheader]

I think Bobby winning three games in a row with 9 for and 0 against has caused a lot of panic in the negative part of the fanbase. They have all fled screaming to the player threads to run down every player they can.

some utter bizarre posting going on lately....

 

[Dymak]

and he fits into our team quite well at a price of nothing...so if we do sell or we don't sell we are still on a winner.

Yes, because he was free. I'm not advocating his sale, he is a useful squad player, but I don't think he is the answer to our left hand side.

 

[mutley]

Cleverleys biggest mistake was coming here on a free, if we had paid 10m for him i reckon fans like Dymak would be raving about him.

 

[Dymak]

Well you really don't need people arguing with you do you when you check so few things before posting

OK mate.

 

[Dymak]

Cleverleys biggest mistake was coming here on a free, if we had paid 10m for him i reckon fans like Dymak would be raving about him.

No, they would be mortified, as would you.

 

[Parkender]

Yes, because he was free. I'm not advocating his sale, he is a useful squad player, but I don't think he is the answer to our left hand side.

Horses for courses. I would imagine in games were we would expect to be on the back foot he's useful in dropping more central and backing the midfield up. At home I would prefer a more orthodox winger though

 

[graeme2911]

Again if you don't like him why not supply evidence from what you've seen rather than speculating on something you are really not clear on.
There was open interest from Southampton as well as Villa but he'd made it clear he wanted to come here so who knows what interest there would have been. And why should that influence your opinion any more than Ferguson rating him highly when you are now watching him week after week.
You are watching aren't you?

I was fishing with that comment, but since you ask, I have stated many times why I do not rate him, with reasoning.

If you want to go down the route of quantifiable, then he doesn't score enough or assist enough, or make enough what are often called key passes, ie. Starting or heavily contributing in a move that creates a goal or chance.

If you want qualitative reasoning, I watch him every game, watched plenty of Villa last season and plenty of Utd when he was there. I DID see a player with potential 5 years ago, hence why SAF played him so much. He had world class players around him to compliment him and allow him to develop.
He is now 26, and no longer qualifies for potential.
His passing is decent, long passes occasionally very good.
His tackling is weak, very weak. He can win a ball through pressure, but not 1 on 1, ala Barry or Besic which for a midfielder is not good.
He isn't as good as Pienaar or Mirallas, two options which if fit and motivated are ahead of him.



This is completely what a mate of mine, who is a Bolton fan, has said that he has noticed a worrying trend amongst Evertonians over the last couple of years. There is a huge swing towards acceptance of mediocrity. You cannot keep putting lesser players in the XI and still expect things to stay rosy. Look at Villa. They said it'll be ok, we can cope without Barry, Milner, Young, Downing.

 

[graeme2911]

Then theres another Manager, this Manager gave him his debut, he also gave him 2 contracts.

Can you guess this Managers name, I will give you a clue, hes the probably the greatest Manager thats ever lived.

Was it Sir Alex Ferguson? I think it was.
Was that when Cleverley was a kid who actually had potential and did look like he could on to be a good player. Over 5 years ago.

 

[Shibbywiggles]

Cleverley as a defensive midfielder is a last resort but on the left has been good. Hits a good dead ball as well as seen by a goal from a corner against Stoke and his clever shot against Newcastle. He has a great range of passing and is good at linking up. He's not our best player and hopefully Niasse could offer more of a driving force cutting in from the left but I'm glad he's in the squad!

 

[BlueToff]

Horses for courses. I would imagine in games were we would expect to be on the back foot he's useful in dropping more central and backing the midfield up. At home I would prefer a more orthodox winger though

Exactly this.

He fits the system brilliantly in games like yesterday and against Newcastle.

But we also have Mirallas and Niasse as well.

Cleverley, much like Lennon, brings that experience and balance that you need to get the best out of the young players.

For as good as Del has been this season, Lennon is coming in and doing an entirely different job and is now getting results.

Cleverley is perfect for that role on the left as he does not have to stay rigidly in that position when attacking. But, when he defends, he tracks backs well and helps out the full backs, and it means we can leave Barkley further up-field where he can do all the damage.

 

[BlueToff]

I was fishing with that comment, but since you ask, I have stated many times why I do not rate him, with reasoning.

If you want to go down the route of quantifiable, then he doesn't score enough or assist enough, or make enough what are often called key passes, ie. Starting or heavily contributing in a move that creates a goal or chance.

If you want qualitative reasoning, I watch him every game, watched plenty of Villa last season and plenty of Utd when he was there. I DID see a player with potential 5 years ago, hence why SAF played him so much. He had world class players around him to compliment him and allow him to develop.
He is now 26, and no longer qualifies for potential.
His passing is decent, long passes occasionally very good.
His tackling is weak, very weak. He can win a ball through pressure, but not 1 on 1, ala Barry or Besic which for a midfielder is not good.
He isn't as good as Pienaar or Mirallas, two options which if fit and motivated are ahead of him.



This is completely what a mate of mine, who is a Bolton fan, has said that he has noticed a worrying trend amongst Evertonians over the last couple of years. There is a huge swing towards acceptance of mediocrity. You cannot keep putting lesser players in the XI and still expect things to stay rosy. Look at Villa. They said it'll be ok, we can cope without Barry, Milner, Young, Downing.

Cleverley is a far better player than a lot of the tosh we've had in recent years.

 

[Shibbywiggles]

I was fishing with that comment, but since you ask, I have stated many times why I do not rate him, with reasoning.

If you want to go down the route of quantifiable, then he doesn't score enough or assist enough, or make enough what are often called key passes, ie. Starting or heavily contributing in a move that creates a goal or chance.

If you want qualitative reasoning, I watch him every game, watched plenty of Villa last season and plenty of Utd when he was there. I DID see a player with potential 5 years ago, hence why SAF played him so much. He had world class players around him to compliment him and allow him to develop.
He is now 26, and no longer qualifies for potential.
His passing is decent, long passes occasionally very good.
His tackling is weak, very weak. He can win a ball through pressure, but not 1 on 1, ala Barry or Besic which for a midfielder is not good.
He isn't as good as Pienaar or Mirallas, two options which if fit and motivated are ahead of him.



This is completely what a mate of mine, who is a Bolton fan, has said that he has noticed a worrying trend amongst Evertonians over the last couple of years. There is a huge swing towards acceptance of mediocrity. You cannot keep putting lesser players in the XI and still expect things to stay rosy. Look at Villa. They said it'll be ok, we can cope without Barry, Milner, Young, Downing.

That last points a bit silly mate. Those were Villas best players when they let them go. No one is saying we'd be ok if Rom, Ross, Stones and Coleman were all sold and not replaced properly, most fans are saying we have a good squad player here.

 

[Parkender]

With

This is completely what a mate of mine, who is a Bolton fan, has said that he has noticed a worrying trend amongst Evertonians over the last couple of years. There is a huge swing towards acceptance of mediocrity. You cannot keep putting lesser players in the XI and still expect things to stay rosy. Look at Villa. They said it'll be ok, we can cope without Barry, Milner, Young, Downing.

I havent read all the way back through this thread but most blues I know are of the opinion "Hes a free signing and a decent squad player." Martinez must think something similar as he's bought someone specifically for that wide left role. And as for the Villa comment, surely thats different as they sold those players without replacing them? Under Martinez the squad is mostly getting better. Even Cleverley is a better option than Osman, McGeady and I would go as far to say Mirallas too

 

[Goat]

This is completely what a mate of mine, who is a Bolton fan, has said that he has noticed a worrying trend amongst Evertonians over the last couple of years. There is a huge swing towards acceptance of mediocrity. You cannot keep putting lesser players in the XI and still expect things to stay rosy. Look at Villa. They said it'll be ok, we can cope without Barry, Milner, Young, Downing.

A Bolton fan hey, tell me more.

Always interested to hear what Bolton fans have to say about players they dont watch every week.