Tottenham VS Everton Tue 27th Oct 8pm KO

[GhostOfDixie]

Surely our midfeild should do what? Christ ones 17 and the other is in their early 20's both have played three away games in nine games - we shouldnt expect anything pther then what we got.

Trying to create drama that just isnt there is just devisive - there are problems in the team come down to one thing and thats a lack of options and varience, brought about by one thing and that injuries - no nothing else - injuries.

Have i been the only one watching Everton over the last 3 years. Same team - all injured.

When times are hard lads, you get behind your team - the mark of a real fan is supporting your team in bad (but transient) times. Its easy to get excited on FA cuup final day.

Come on mate.

Howard

Hibbert
Distin
Heitinga
Neill

Gosling
Rodwell
Cahill
Fellaini

Yakubu
Saha

Other than Gosling that's a fairly solid side. But we have lost this game again due to mistakes, slow reactions and failure to put away chances. It's fairly basic stuff.

Sharpy today said that he was sick of hearing about injuries, you just got to get on with it.

We need to get on with it.

 

[bluebastardo]

I think the Moyes out worries are a little premature.
I'll knock him when he messes up and praise him when he gets it right just like most, but I don't think the answer is Moyes out, but more of a challenge that Moyes has to face, learn from, become stronger, and use his experience to our advantage.

If he can't deal with the present situation, then the best we can hope for is that we stay up, and the same mistakes aren't repeated, and not just from Moyes, but across the whole spectrum.

Being a good manager isn't just about the highs, but it's also about dealing with the lows too, so let's see how he approaches the situation.
In either case, we're only 10 games into the season, and we have a player problem.
There's nothing we can do about it, but there should at least be an investigation with a view to finding out why, and put it right.

Time will tell with Moyes, but so far, he has breathed life into our club, and he faces the biggest challenge of his career so far. He deserves the opportunity to put it right, just as the fans deserve the opportunity to seek proof that the same mistakes aren't repeated.

Knock him by all means, but let's not jump the gun too soon here.
He's still a very young manager, and the job isn't always easy.

 

[ToxtethBlue]

In all seriousness, and i don't believe this is an over-reaction because im not fussed about the carling cup but i think we've sort of out-grown Moyes.
It's been said before and i didn't buy into it, but now i have.

Moyes saved us from relegation, turned us into a force but now other teams have money and are improving rapidly.
Moyes seems to have built a team which is capable of playing much better football than his tactics suggest, we can all **** off a couple of players for hoofing it but chances are, Moyes's tactics involve hoofing it. The players who get us playing football on the ground are injured (Arteta and Pienaar), without them we just can't play properly. Also, those two players bring out the best in Jo and Cahill because they are playing the football, getting the balls in that they need.

We have so many excuses we could use but at the end of the day, all they are is excuses and most other teams won't really care. Now if Moyes would change his ways by having faith in his younger players to field a weaker team in certain situations like today, and play without hoofing it and along the floor then maybe we could handle it a bit better without our most important players injured. But he wont.

I've criticised Moyes' football in the past and I still don't think he's perfect (who is?) but I can't agree with that at the moment. Atleast give the man a chance to get a steady team on the pitch week in week out.

If he continues to play hoofball and dire football when we've got Arteta, Pienaar, Osman and Bilyaletdinov available then you've got a point, I'd certainly start to question where we are actually going. But he's working with very limited resources at the moment, resources that any manager would struggle with.

You've just got to ask yourself how many times Moyes has had Bilyaletdinov and Pienaar on the pitch this season or how many times he's had Yakubu and Saha fit and firing at the same time. Even our defence has been chopped and changed. That's not even mentioning the likes of Jagielka and Arteta.

 

[ToxtethBlue]

Come on mate.

Howard

Hibbert
Distin
Heitinga
Neill

Gosling
Rodwell
Cahill
Fellaini

Yakubu
Saha

Other than Gosling that's a fairly solid side. But we have lost this game again due to mistakes, slow reactions and failure to put away chances. It's fairly basic stuff.

Sharpy today said that he was sick of hearing about injuries, you just got to get on with it.

We need to get on with it.

Three new defenders who've barely played together, Hibbert at left back, Cahill on the wing, an inexperienced and second choice (if that) centre midfield, a unfit Yakubu upfront and playing a system that doesn't suit us.

Sadly it's not always about the quality of the players, the system and how they are lined up is a big thing. We lack balance and it isn't a solid side at all, it's patched up and weak.

 

[GhostOfDixie]

Three new defenders who've barely played together, Hibbert at left back, Cahill on the wing, an inexperienced and second choice (if that) centre midfield, a unfit Yakubu upfront and playing a system that doesn't suit us.

Sadly it's not always about the quality of the players, the system and how they are lined up is a big thing. We lack balance and it isn't a solid side at all, it's patched up and weak.

So do you think the defensive errors are due to players not playing together?

What about poor finishing?

Or Jo's shocking control?

What alarms me is Moyes said that once that team crosses the white line it's out of my hands. For me he is just not saying the right things.

 

[Abraders]

I've criticised Moyes' football in the past and I still don't think he's perfect (who is?) but I can't agree with that at the moment. Atleast give the man a chance to get a steady team on the pitch week in week out.

If he continues to play hoofball and dire football when we've got Arteta, Pienaar, Osman and Bilyaletdinov available then you've got a point, I'd certainly start to question where we are actually going. But he's working with very limited resources at the moment, resources that any manager would struggle with.

You've just got to ask yourself how many times Moyes has had Bilyaletdinov and Pienaar on the pitch this season or how many times he's had Yakubu and Saha fit and firing at the same time. Even our defence has been chopped and changed. That's not even mentioning the likes of Jagielka and Arteta.

Fair doos, but there is no reason for these players to be playing hoofball, teams like Wigan, Burnley and even Portsmouth are playing along the floor!!!
Also, i didn't like it when Moyes directly put the blame on the players saying he can do nothing when they go onto the pitch because to be fair there is alot he can do. Change it about, make substitutions (ok Moyes has a problem when it comes to subs with all our injuries but..).

Anyway, i don't know where our form is going to come from until players like Pienaar, Baines and Billy (at least) are back into our side and fit. I was hopeful of a win against Bolton, and maybe even a draw against Tottenham but it didn't happen.

Basically, we should have the confidence and ability to play the ball on the ground for longer periods than 5 minutes and without losing the ball!

 

[ToxtethBlue]

So do you think the defensive errors are due to players not playing together?

What about poor finishing?

Or Jo's shocking control?

What alarms me is Moyes said that once that team crosses the white line it's out of my hands. For me he is just not saying the right things.

As I've said so many times, continuity and player partnerships are very important at ever level of football. Lack of understanding can come from players having not played together or players not playing in positions that are natural to them.

Is it the only reason? No, not at all, as I've said so many times in both this and the Bolton thread. But to say it's isn't important is wrong, it's very important and it can lead to mistakes, lack of organisation and individual errors.

 

[GhostOfDixie]

As I've said so many times, continuity and player partnerships are very important at ever level of football. Lack of understanding can come from players having not played together or players not playing in positions that are natural to them.

Is it the only reason? No, not at all, as I've said so many times in both this and the Bolton thread. But to say it's isn't important is wrong, it's very important and it can lead to mistakes, lack of organisation and individual errors.

Of course. But if any player comes out and says that I ****ed up due to injured players, would you be impressed? Like I say, it's not acceptable, but I can understand it.

Tonight though Moyes should have thrown them kids in there, what harm would have done. There would have been no pressure, and any experience is good experience. Instead he puts them into another 90 minutes of meaningless football, and then will probably moan about too many games.

 

[Neiler]

Come on mate.

Howard

Hibbert
Distin
Heitinga
Neill

Gosling
Rodwell
Cahill
Fellaini

Yakubu
Saha

Other than Gosling that's a fairly solid side. But we have lost this game again due to mistakes, slow reactions and failure to put away chances. It's fairly basic stuff.

Sharpy today said that he was sick of hearing about injuries, you just got to get on with it.

We need to get on with it.

The reality is mate is thats a defensive line that has had about three games with each other.

A midfeild trio of 22 and under and an attacking midfeilder who is used as a winger.

In the context of everything two world class strikers with no service.

Adding the fact that its the 3rd away game in nine days im not surprised by the result - there are many glaringly obvious reasons for our form - but they boil down to one thing, you can blame the players - but for me there are only so many times you can go to the well. You can blame the manager but he can only pick and change on the basis of whats available.

The question is really is with one player leaving in the summer - has our set up - changed so radicaly in the context of 16 games, from success to failure, that a really good team have become a bad team - no i dont think so - logic dictates that you analyse whats different and the glaringly obvious thing - is the options and depth are limited - which equates to injuries - i honestly dont think its anything else, maybe it is - i just dont think so - all our problems at the moment eminate from that source. Our results have disimproved in corralation to our number of injuries - im not taking it as a coincidence.

Anyway the low lights are on Sky im gonna have a look and we will see how we performed.

 

[chicoazul]

Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

If he plays the kids and they get spanked then he'll get accused of not taking the competition seriously and giving the senior players left a chance to put things right.

Play the seniors and he gets accused of trying to get them injured and wearing them out.

Thing is, he's one of the best managers we've had so while we can all wax lyrical and imagine its just like Champ Manager, it isnt. Moyes knows what he's doing better than ANY of us.

It's a [Poor language removed] period but like life, you cant win all the time. Makes it all that sweeter when we start doing ace things again, which we will.

It's just massively painful with them affecting our mood at the moment.

 

[GhostOfDixie]

The reality is mate thats a defensive line that has had about three games with each other.

A midfeild trio of 22 and under and an attacking midfeilder who is used as a winger.

In the context of everything two world class strikers with no service.

Adding the fact that its the 3rd away game in nine days im not surprised by the result - there are many glaringly obvious reasons, for our form - but they boil down t one thing, you can play the playesr - but for me there are only so many times you can go to the well. You can blame the manager but he can only pick and change on the basis of whats available.

The question is really with one player leaving in the summer - has our set up - changed so radicaly in the context of 16 games form success to failure that a really good team have come a bad team - no i dont - logic dictates that you analyse whats different and the glaringly obvious thing - is the options and depth - which equates to injuries - i honestly dont think its anything else, maybe it is - i just dont think so - all our problems at the moment eminate from that source.

Of course, but and this is what I don't understand. It's not a new occurance, we have had injury problems all season, we have lost key players since last season.

Moyes has had opportunities to work with the players, get them equipped, is he not doing his job? We used to have this immense team spirit, all for one attitude. Has that gone?

 

[ToxtethBlue]

Fair doos, but there is no reason for these players to be playing hoofball, teams like Wigan, Burnley and even Portsmouth are playing along the floor!!!
Also, i didn't like it when Moyes directly put the blame on the players saying he can do nothing when they go onto the pitch because to be fair there is alot he can do. Change it about, make substitutions (ok Moyes has a problem when it comes to subs with all our injuries but..).

Anyway, i don't know where our form is going to come from until players like Pienaar, Baines and Billy (at least) are back into our side and fit. I was hopeful of a win against Bolton, and maybe even a draw against Tottenham but it didn't happen.

Basically, we should have the confidence and ability to play the ball on the ground for longer periods than 5 minutes and without losing the ball!

Did you see how different Arsenal's football was when they lost Cesc Fabregas last season? Song, Denilson and Diaby came in and there football was average and predictable. And this is Arsene Wenger's team, the total football man, the preacher of the pass and move game.

Not only have we lost Arteta but we've also lost Pienaar, Osman and Bilyaletdinov. That's four creative midfielders plus Leighton Baines, another of our most potent attacking weapons. Take away Jagielka and Baines and that's most of our starting eleven, the spine of the side.

Moyes can't morph Tim Cahill into a touch line hugging winger or Marouane Fellaini into a creative playmaking genius. He can only work with what he's got and alot of our 'footballers' are injured.

I can't see where our form is going to come from either unless we get players back but that's the situation we are in, sadly.

 

[GhostOfDixie]

Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

If he plays the kids and they get spanked then he'll get accused of not taking the competition seriously and giving the senior players left a chance to put things right.

Play the seniors and he gets accused of trying to get them injured and wearing them out.

Thing is, he's one of the best managers we've had so while we can all wax lyrical and imagine its just like Champ Manager, it isnt. Moyes knows what he's doing better than ANY of us.

It's a [Poor language removed] period but like life, you cant win all the time. Makes it all that sweeter when we start doing ace things again, which we will.

It's just massively painful with them affecting our mood at the moment.

I don't think many fans would have been too disappointed with seeing a wealth of kids on the teamsheet, and perhaps save our more senior players for a more important game on Sat.

I fully expect that at least 1 player from today's line-up will not make the squad.

 

[Abraders]

Did you see how different Arsenal's football was when they lost Cesc Fabregas last season? Song, Denilson and Diaby came in and there football was average and predictable. And this is Arsene Wenger's team, the total football man, the preacher of the pass and move game.

Not only have we lost Arteta but we've also lost Pienaar, Osman and Bilyaletdinov. That's four creative midfielders plus Leighton Baines, another of our most potent attacking weapons. Take away Jagielka and Baines and that's most of our starting eleven, the spine of the side.

Moyes can't morph Tim Cahill into a touch line hugging winger or Marouane Fellaini into a creative playmaking genius. He can only work with what he's got and alot of our 'footballers' are injured.

I can't see where our form is going to come from either unless we get players back but that's the situation we are in, sadly.

Chances are we have now lost Cahill and Saha for the Villa game too though, seeing as Saha went off with a head injury and if its anything like Yobo's then he's at least going to miss one game and Cahill has picked up so many knocks that i think he's probably going to need a rest!

 

[chicoazul]

I don't think many fans would have been too disappointed with seeing a wealth of kids on the teamsheet, and perhaps save our more senior players for a more important game on Sat.

I fully expect that at least 1 player from today's line-up will not make the squad.

They wouldn't. I was pleased he put out his strongest team today. I wanted to win the Carling Cup, I want to win every cup we play in no matter how miniscule.