Usmanov

[gazzaa2]

But he's still a supporter of Putin and he's the owner of a Russian company and he's funding this club. This club is reliant on the cash of a devotee of Putin.

So what's your thoughts on that?

The reality is we need his money.

 

[lungo]

State of this thread.

I sometimes wish the Internet didn't exist.

Yet I'm drawn to it, a moth to a flame. Reading page upon page of people insisting that they are right, and then insulting people with a different opinion.

"Usmanov is best mates with Putin and obviously supports what is going in Ukraine, he's practically killing mothers and babies himself for sport. " is the general theme from several posters.

Id imagine every Oligarch keeps Putin 'onside' as it makes good business sense. I doubt very much they're all egging him on and sharing high fives as more bombs fall.

Does that make him a Saint, 'not guilty' of a accusations about how his vast wealth was acquired?` No.

Should he therefore come out with vocal opposition? Yes? Would you really?

Don't lie. You'd crap your pants and keep quiet.

The Ukraine issue could have/should have been nipped in the bud years ago. It wasn't because pretty much every world leader is a self-serving, pants-pissing coward. (Clearly, the Ukrainian President isn't.)

You dont have a clue. The oligarchs are part of the Putin system. Without the oligarchs no Putin!. Putin himself is an oligarch. The Germans almost got his yacht a few days ago in a dock in Hamburg. Kleptocracy all over.He did get it out at the last minute. So the crying about the poor Usmanov is the most ridiculous thing ever!!

 

[njligernj]

It’s been a while. Just here to war monger.

Peace and love peace and love.

I didn’t like this lot before all the sanctions and war.

People on this thread — powerless (no offence) people expressing an opinion — are war mongers? Nobody listens to us about Everton but now what we say could impact sanctions and war? Win something Everton *and* peace in Ukraine. There. Sorted. I have entered my vote.

Meanwhile our owners make money that goes to the literal war monger? Watch out we could become Southampton without them someone said.

Southampton. Villa. Moyes.

Southampton. Villa. Moyes.

All the losers we recite to scare each other are all above us in the table. Start threatening each other with a new team and I’ll get some cash on them to finish above us.

I vote Mosh out. I’ll take my chances. He hasn’t done one bloody thing right FFS it’s like he’s purposefully trying to destroy the club. Do we have one shred of evidence he isn’t purposefully trying to destroy the club? He doesn’t have to try. It just comes natural. I’m not saying he is. I’m just saying it looks like it because everything he does is a colossal failure and we keep getting worse and worse. Also everything he says in public makes everything worse. What else? He’s rich. Can’t deny that.

Like the new manager though. Fun Fact: His dad ruined my football “career.” Sins of the father.

So anti-Mosh and pro-Lamps in the culture war please.

I’ll be back in another four years. Another Olympics of misery that parts to reveal a shiny new stadium. Ever the optimist. I love you blues. Keep your heads up. We’re still the best and all. Still working on getting the billions together myself. Not going well. But one day lads and lids. One day.

 

[njligernj]

My avatar. I just noticed. Amazing. Yeah it’s been a while.

 

[Eggsyblueskin]

Forget Everton FC for a moment and think of it more broadly. Aside from the dubious legality of just freezing people's assets based upon what country they are from-which is what the war mongers want (and it's not just about oligarchs either, there are suggestions afoot to steal money of every Russian person and their family in this country, so the motivator of this is pure xenophobia and nothing to do with perceived oligarchs) it will not help any of the objectives whatsoever.The wealthiest will have already moved their assets, so they won't lose.

Who loses are ordinary people. Ordinary Russian people will be hit hardest by sanctions, as it's always the poorest who pay most in such scenarios. The Ukranian people will likely pay, as it makes finding a peaceful resolution harder to get. And also, it's the people of this city who suffer, who if the stadium falls through lose a fantastic opportunity for inward investment and jobs.

And who are imposing these sanctions. A bunch of utter scumbags, who break every rule under the sun and think they are above any rules and the law. Are people seriously going to let Boris Johnson, lecture us on individuals who break the law? Boris Johnson. Really?

Or how about Joe Biden, the segregationist who sat in the actual inner sanctum of a war mongering government who launched military strikes on multiple countries, most of them unable to defend themselves with even a fraction of what Ukraine has got. Complete bullies.

Or this government, who have just made Tony Blair a Knight. A man who caused death and misery on a scale unrecognisable to anything Putin has ever got close to doing.

These are the people who are involved in making sanctions, because they think some fella who isn't even from Russian, but happens to have some business interests there is beyond the pale? Just to make themselves feel better about themselves, and it allows Johnson to get himself out of the hole of his own law breaking. The same Johnson and Tories who have benefited far more from Russian money than we as a club, or a city ever will, yet they won't renounce their links but think they can sit as judge, jury and executioner over ours.

Honestly, get to [Poor language removed].If people want to call me vermin or whatever else then fine, but seriously have a word. When our politicians and elites stop breaking the law here, partying it up while hundreds of thousands of people are dying, they can start having a go at others.

Until that happens, no sane person should be supporting any sanctions from a bunch of corrupt, detestable rule breakers, sanctions that will be designed to harm the poorest the most. All solely because they want to tub their chests and feel important.

Honestly, the level of obfuscation you have employed in your apologist defence of a brutal land grab is breathtaking.
The simple fact is that a large and powerful country has launched an unprovoked military assault on its smaller neighbour and people are now dying or becoming refugees.
Yet you urge we do nothing but stand by and observe.
You hide behind the inadequacies of various world leaders and governments in order to appease a tyrant and allow him free rein to do as he pleases.
In the absence of military action the only pressure that can be conceivably applied is through the restriction of business and the movement of wealth, yet you oppose even this limited measure under the pretence of your concern for ordinary people who would suffer.
Meanwhile ordinary people are dying in a war they did not initiate.
You put me in mind of a lawyer defending a brutal rapist by pointing out the length of the victims skirt and observing that most of the people in the courtroom had watched a blue movie at some point in their lives.
I have always admired and enjoyed your intelligent ,thoughtful and reasoned posts but your current position on this matter disappoints and disgusts me.
I can only assume you are influenced by self interest and implications for the club we both share a passion for.
You are the Samaritan who found enough reasons not to cross the road

 

[BNJ1878]

You dont have a clue. The oligarchs are part of the Putin system. Without the oligarchs no Putin!. Putin himself is an oligarch. The Germans almost got his yacht a few days ago in a dock in Hamburg. Kleptocracy all over.He did get it out at the last minute. So the crying about the poor Usmanov is the most ridiculous thing ever!!

I'm not crying about 'Poor Usmanov' you biff.

But yeah, whatever.

 

[jackmac69]

We'll be significantly worse off than that. The debt we owe AU and FM will sink us. Relegation upon relegation will occur as every asset is sold.

Not often I agree with you, take it you did seek medical advice about dementia after our recent convo's and your tablets are kicking in, the result is you've made a lot of sense here, well done mate, fair do's.

 

[catcherintherye]

At what point do you call out this attack?
Johnson attending drinks is not the same as attacking and invading a democratic state.

The attack has been called out, and it's disgraceful.

So is breaking laws in the middle of a pandemic, and then lying about it over and over and over and over again.

I am all for stopping Putin. What I'm against is law breakers in this country, pointing fingers at businessman, and businesses and ratcheting up a reactionary and xenophobic hate campaign against those individuals. I've just seen that Zara Sultana, has now had a death threat for arguing for a peaceful diplomatic solution, as people think she's a traitor. This rhetoric has gone too far now, and innocent people are going to get hurt. It needs to stop.

 

[catcherintherye]

Frankly I would put world peace above Everton.
It would be blip in our history if we suffered financially and got relegated and rebuilt.
It would be a stain on our club for the next hundred years if we opposed sanctions

You get world peace by negotiating a peaceful solution, not by whipping up a xenophobic atmosphere and attacking the anti-war movement.

 

[catcherintherye]

Honestly, the level of obfuscation you have employed in your apologist defence of a brutal land grab is breathtaking.
The simple fact is that a large and powerful country has launched an unprovoked military assault on its smaller neighbour and people are now dying or becoming refugees.
Yet you urge we do nothing but stand by and observe.
You hide behind the inadequacies of various world leaders and governments in order to appease a tyrant and allow him free rein to do as he pleases.
In the absence of military action the only pressure that can be conceivably applied is through the restriction of business and the movement of wealth, yet you oppose even this limited measure under the pretence of your concern for ordinary people who would suffer.
Meanwhile ordinary people are dying in a war they did not initiate.
You put me in mind of a lawyer defending a brutal rapist by pointing out the length of the victims skirt and observing that most of the people in the courtroom had watched a blue movie at some point in their lives.
I have always admired and enjoyed your intelligent ,thoughtful and reasoned posts but your current position on this matter disappoints and disgusts me.
I can only assume you are influenced by self interest and implications for the club we both share a passion for.
You are the Samaritan who found enough reasons not to cross the road

I'm not being horrible mate, but exactly the same arguments were said about me when I protested against military invasion of Afganistan and Iraq. The same straw man that somehow if you didn't support military attacks on those nations it meant you supported those nations rulers. Thankfully, with the passage of time, I think most people can now see that was completely untrue. Supporting peace does not mean supporting the rulers of any nation.

I am opposed to Putin, and completely opposed to his invasion of Ukraine. And it is an invasion, I appreciate you have used the phrase land grab, but it's more serious than that. I try to be as balanced as possible, and I don't think anybody could accuse me of not seeing the Russian perspective on this, but there is no justification for his action that I can think of, even in a devils advocate sort of way.

Targeting Russians is not going to help. In the same way that targeting Muslims in the war on terror didn't help. It might make people feel better, but it won't help. Sanctions don't work. They didn't work in Cuba. They haven't worked in North Korea. All they do is punish the poorest.

I am in complete support of the anti-war activists in Russia. I hope they bring Putin down from the inside, and short of a diplomatic agreement, they are probably our best chance. Sanctions don't help them, but actually make their task much harder.

In this instance I couldn't care less about the club. My conviction is as an anti-war activist/campaigner for all of my adolescent life. As long as I've been politically aware, I've been against wars. They bring nothing but destruction and misery. I feel very deeply affected by whats happening to the poor people of Ukraine. As Yanis Varafoukis said yesterday, there is really one peaceful solution to this. The west and Putin agree a compromise. That is not involving sanctions. Anything else is war mongering. At this point in time, the war mongering has to stop. We have a small window where we can make an enormous difference, and I can only hope we take it.

I'm sure there are parts of this you disagree with, but I really hope people can acknowledge that arguing for a peaceful solution does not come from a place where you therein support someone who starts a war. If I was in Russia, I'd be on the streets protesting, just as I was on the streets protesting here when we launched into wars.

 

[Eggsyblueskin]

I'm not being horrible mate, but exactly the same arguments were said about me when I protested against military invasion of Afganistan and Iraq. The same straw man that somehow if you didn't support military attacks on those nations it meant you supported those nations rulers. Thankfully, with the passage of time, I think most people can now see that was completely untrue. Supporting peace does not mean supporting the rulers of any nation.

I am opposed to Putin, and completely opposed to his invasion of Ukraine. And it is an invasion, I appreciate you have used the phrase land grab, but it's more serious than that. I try to be as balanced as possible, and I don't think anybody could accuse me of not seeing the Russian perspective on this, but there is no justification for his action that I can think of, even in a devils advocate sort of way.

Targeting Russians is not going to help. In the same way that targeting Muslims in the war on terror didn't help. It might make people feel better, but it won't help. Sanctions don't work. They didn't work in Cuba. They haven't worked in North Korea. All they do is punish the poorest.

I am in complete support of the anti-war activists in Russia. I hope they bring Putin down from the inside, and short of a diplomatic agreement, they are probably our best chance. Sanctions don't help them, but actually make their task much harder.

In this instance I couldn't care less about the club. My conviction is as an anti-war activist/campaigner for all of my adolescent life. As long as I've been politically aware, I've been against wars. They bring nothing but destruction and misery. I feel very deeply affected by whats happening to the poor people of Ukraine. As Yanis Varafoukis said yesterday, there is really one peaceful solution to this. The west and Putin agree a compromise. That is not involving sanctions. Anything else is war mongering. At this point in time, the war mongering has to stop. We have a small window where we can make an enormous difference, and I can only hope we take it.

I'm sure there are parts of this you disagree with, but I really hope people can acknowledge that arguing for a peaceful solution does not come from a place where you therein support someone who starts a war. If I was in Russia, I'd be on the streets protesting, just as I was on the streets protesting here when we launched into wars.

I’m sorry but while I am sympathetic to your anti war stance , I do not agree that a compromise should be reached.
Any compromise would involve the tacit acceptance that might is right.
Sometimes it is necessary to fight for your beliefs.
If a mugger smacks you in the face and demands your pay packet you either surrender the contents of your pocket and hope he doesn’t return again, or you can offer to divide your wage packet in the hope of avoiding violence but knowing he will probably return next week.
I would choose to resist with every device at my disposal.
As Kipling said , ‘Once you pay him the Danegeld you never get rid of the Dane’
If there is one thing that recent history should have taught us it’s that appeasement does not ensure peace but guarantees more war.

 

[AndyC]

It's probably because you've proved yourself to be utter vermin.

Let’s try and not get into personal attacks eh?

There are elements of posts by @catcherintherye that disappoint me and that I disagree with but, I wouldn’t go so far as to call him vermin.

The situation in Ukraine is understandably one that is highly emotive, and we all probably need to try and stay calm and try to respect different opinions.

Calling fellow Blues vermin won’t and doesn’t help.

 

[catcherintherye]

Let’s try and not get into personal attacks eh?

There are elements of posts by @catcherintherye that disappoint me and that I disagree with but, I wouldn’t go so far as to call him vermin.

The situation in Ukraine is understandably one that is highly emotive, and we all probably need to try and stay calm and try to respect different opinions.

Calling fellow Blues vermin won’t and doesn’t help.

Thanks Andy. In fairness @Bkk Andy I do understand my viewpoint is a contrarian one, passionately argued and I step over the line as well at times, so I'm sure there was no malice in it from him. There's no grudge held at my end anyway!

 

[catcherintherye]

I’m sorry but while I am sympathetic to your anti war stance , I do not agree that a compromise should be reached.
Any compromise would involve the tacit acceptance that might is right.
Sometimes it is necessary to fight for your beliefs.
If a mugger smacks you in the face and demands your pay packet you either surrender the contents of your pocket and hope he doesn’t return again, or you can offer to divide your wage packet in the hope of avoiding violence but knowing he will probably return next week.
I would choose to resist with every device at my disposal.
As Kipling said , ‘Once you pay him the Danegeld you never get rid of the Dane’
If there is one thing that recent history should have taught us it’s that appeasement does not ensure peace but guarantees more war.

I do get what you are saying. It's not an easy situation. It wasn't an easy situation when you know the Taliban are oppressing women, or Saddam is mistreating his own citizens (and that's me being very and not swearing) but I'm not sure you can base world diplomacy on the premise of what you would do if someone lamps you.

The reality is that Russia, Nato and Ukraine is not a simple situation of a mugger and the mugged. It is a situation of competing interests where everyone is trying to mug each other. I'd want a world where that incentive is removed, but before we can get to that point we probably have to have a truce.

None of this makes what Putin has done vaguely acceptable. I happen to have a lot of sympathy for the Russian speaking population in the east of the country, but what he has done invalidates the legitimate concerns he has shown towards them.

To bring it back to point, I just don't think citizens should pay the penalty for that. Abramovich is an Israeli citizen, and his daughter has come out against the war. I think it's motivated by vengeance which on the one hand is fair enough, but on the other isn't actually very productive.

Yo me, it should be made very clear to Putin, he has to get his troops out of Ukraine. That we will offer tangible support to Ukraine and continue to acknowledge it's existence as a country. That any solution is built upon the premise that he acknowledges it's existence and will not attack it again.

 

[bcblue1878]

Ive said this all along, the new post Mosh balance sheet would be a train wreck...and it would all be in EFC's name - nobody else.
A potential Derby Co. Sunderland til I die, Leeds of 20rys ago senario

Others will know the answer to this far better than me, but has Moshiri not converted a large amount of his “loans” to Everton into shares? Would this not therefore mean that he has to actually sell the shares at the best price he can get in order to recoup the majority of his investment?