Usmanov

[Eggsyblueskin]

Great post

The way what used to be the working man’s game has gone really turns my stomach.

I understand the sentiment but in this country while working class men may have played and watched the game they have never owned it.

 

[Diogenes the Cynic]

lol

Git!

He's dead by the way. Sadly.

We'll always have Italia '90.

He was an extraordinary talent though matched only by his warmth and charisma.

The only consolation is I think he passed before he would have been automatically claimed by the twitter kopite cult. It was a simpler time.

 

[chrismpw]

We'll always have Italia '90.

He was an extraordinary talent though matched only by his warmth and charisma.

The only consolation is I think he passed before he would have been automatically claimed by the twitter kopite cult. It was a simpler time.

The koppites: "he was one of us ynwa. (Who was he?)"

 

[JobForTheMoyes]

But ya cant remember howard kendall?

Of course I remember him - I just have very hazy memories of anything pre Walter Smith. Just because I mixed his name up does not mean I don’t know who he was! I didn’t even start following closely until when Moyes took over from Smith.

 

[JobForTheMoyes]

I understand the sentiment but in this country while working class men may have played and watched the game they have never owned it.

Yeah, but it used to be run by local businessmen, who were more accountable. Now it is just a big money business/hobby for billionaires.

Clubs are essentially toys for these peoples.

 

[Eggsyblueskin]

Yeah, but it used to be run by local businessmen, who were more accountable. Now it is just a big money business/hobby for billionaires.

Clubs are essentially toys for these peoples.

Again, I see and understand your point but I think you have a slightly rosy view of the relationship between the historical owners of football clubs and the working class spectators.
The gap in wealth and power between solicitors and brewery owners and dockers and labourers was every bit as wide as between oligarchs and sheikhs and today’s supporters, with the same limited accountability.
Ideally we would have clubs owned by and run for supporters, with democratically elected boards and strong fiscal controls.
But to achieve that we would have to reconstitute football entirely.
Sadly we are idealists in a less than ideal world, ‘‘twas ever thus.

 

[JobForTheMoyes]

Again, I see and understand your point but I think you have a slightly rosy view of the relationship between the historical owners of football clubs and the working class spectators.
The gap in wealth and power between solicitors and brewery owners and dockers and labourers was every bit as wide as between oligarchs and sheikhs and today’s supporters, with the same limited accountability.
Ideally we would have clubs owned by and run for supporters, with democratically elected boards and strong fiscal controls.
But to achieve that we would have to reconstitute football entirely.
Sadly we are idealists in a less than ideal world, ‘‘twas ever thus.

The Barcelona model!

 

[Eggsyblueskin]

The Barcelona model!

My preference is for the German model , which attempts to ensure supporter involvement and maintain some control over pricing.
Sadly even this, still imperfect , model is under increasing pressure in the current climate.

 

[Dr Baxter]

I understand the sentiment but in this country while working class men may have played and watched the game they have never owned it.

What was the split over in 1892? Money. It was caused by a greedy brewer. One of his other jobs was leader of the Conservatives in Liverpool.

 

[Dr Baxter]

The Barcelona model!

Spanish. Every sporting institution including every top flight football club is run in exactly the same way in Spain. Nothing unique about them.

 

[PSB1]

Yeah, but it used to be run by local businessmen, who were more accountable. Now it is just a big money business/hobby for billionaires.

Clubs are essentially toys for these peoples.

Appreciate the sentiment but I have to wonder whether John Moores felt himself in any way whatever subject to popular feeling.

 

[Nobby Nobbs]

The alternative is us playing in a future EPL in which the Euroleague clubs will field their second string.

No the alternative is us playing in a future EPL in which the Euro league clubs have no representation what's so ever and are never let back in when the Euro league goes tits up.

 

[Charlie Sweet]

It is all in the dots
Just a matter of which way you join them up
Everton football club is a means to an end and an ego trip as well
The fact that they get a chance to go one up on Kronke is a bonus.
Why did Usmanov meet Ancelotti when Arsenal were linked
@roydo .

I remember when I would play blackjack at casino's in my younger years, you would often see groups of eastern European men come in, blow 500 quid in a short space of time, go and get some more, lose again. Get some more, win a load and cash the chips.

I'd always wonder where people get so much money from. Nobody at the casino really asks. They are turning money over.

If you have income streams that you want to obfuscate (for a variety of reasons) then a football club is an excellent way to do it.

Usmanov's wealth I've seen as upwards of 18 billion, with significant access to liquidity. If he's involved we have to assume Skotch will be involved too (circa 6-8 billion). The 3 of them have official wealth of upwards of 25 billion officially. Goodness knows how much unnofficially.

I saw earlier on this thread, that Gazprom is heavily owned by the Russian state, but Usmanov owns shares and influence.

I am not stating this is my belief, but posing a question, but could it be possible that the Russian state is looking to acquire Cultural institutions in the west and potentially key property developments in England? To build a broader portfolio? To be able to exert influence etc?

If that were the aim, guys like Usmanov who are well ingratiated with a variety of individuals would be a pretty good way of doing it. Moshiri is particularly adept at the connections he has.

If Usmanov has an involvement in Everton, I would suggest that figures that go much beyond Usmanov may also be involved.

It could all be untrue of course. However if you look at our balance sheet, any orthodox reading would be we are in rather a lot of trouble, posting record losses. Hardly symptomatic of a club who can go and fork out a huge sum of money for a top manager and give him a bumper transfer kitty. So it suggests that those running the club are viewing it in a different dimension to this.

It's hard to believe a guy with a couple of billion to his name is happy to gamble all of his holdings on Everton in the manner the has.
[/QUOTE]

Our new stadium cannot really be considered a "key property development in England"!

 

[Yarrgh]

Our new stadium cannot really be considered a "key property development in England"!

Next door to a UNESCO heritage site. Every photo of Liverpool from the waterfront will feature the new stadium - a city that is on the map for its cultural and sporting history, and needs to keep apace of what is happening just up the road in Manchester, let alone the Londons or Parises of the world. The waterfront development will be worth 100s of millions if not billions over the long term. Pension funds will be tied into it, local and regional employment, infrastructure development, etc...

Is it a key property development in England? 100% yes. Probably one of the key ones in the world when it is happening.

Anyone who thinks it isn't, is just considering 4 walls, a few seats and a green patch in the centre of it and not the overall picture.

 

[Eggsyblueskin]

What was the split over in 1892? Money. It was caused by a greedy brewer. One of his other jobs was leader of the Conservatives in Liverpool.

Yes and no , as ever it was slightly more complex than it first appears.
Harding was a successful brewer from lowly origins. He was also a member of the Tory party and aspired to be an MP. He used his ownership of the football club to raise his profile and no doubt to be perceived as giving something back to the community. Nothing new there.
Unfortunately for his aspirations the Tory grandees of the city , whilst appreciative of his financial contributions , where predictably deeply uncomfortable with his humble origins and his line of work , and ensured he never achieved his dream.
This slightly hypocritical snobbery also lay behind his ousting from Everton as much as any rent increase .At the time the Everton board contained Liberal supporting professionals , who viewed football as a means to ‘improve’ the working classes and who disliked working with a Tory brewery owner.
When a rent increase was proposed by Harding it was intended to fund ground improvements including ,if I recall correctly, an on site public house allowing the the club and owner to further profit from the sale of alcohol.
Obviously the ‘improving’ Liberal members of the board were predictably horrified at an even closer association between the club and something they regarded as the scourge of the working classes and therefore something to be discouraged, not actively promoted.
Citing the rent increase as the reason , they staged a boardroom coup.
The rest , as they say , is history.