Vaping as bad for your heart as smoking!!!

[Tramps_mate]

Liquorice?

I wanna see Brussel sprouts, fillet steak and Stella flavours...

 

[ijjysmith]

I wanna see Brussel sprouts, fillet steak and Stella flavours...

That might tempt me in.

 

[Moomin]

Ok mate, happily.



start with the headline. Vaping is not smoking. Straight away this article looks jarg as apart from nicotine, neither things share any of the same properties. Good start!



Because it isn't a tobacco habit, it is a nicotine habit. Two different things again.



ok here is the meat of it. 25% of 14-25 year olds, so that is a huge age gap, 11 years worth? What about the 18-25 people then who are legally able to smoke or buy vaping products. How many of the survey were under 18 and how many were over? Very easy to throw an 11 year grap and then aim the whole thing at kids. So jarg research then.



Ok so they have established that the age range goes all the way to 25 right? Flawed again here. first of all attitudes different? Yes, vaping is being banned, smoking isn't. They keep referring to the 'young people' but if that related to a 19 year old then therefore legally able to buy and use said device and therefore makes no odds why they want to use it. You see the flaw in the logic now? If 80% of the aurvey was 18 or over then straight away the poll is pointless. But they haven't supplied that info, funny that.



Oh right, the 14- 25 group socialise with friends do they? Peer group status? Very generalised view there, i mean it isnt like anyone in that 11 year age bracket drink socially, smoke socially, drug socially. No, they all gather round and vape. Hell even if they are, if they are 18 or over why does that even matter?



it does, statistics are out there proving this. That is poor journalism because the statistics are out there for anyone to see they do work for smoking cessation. Want an example? ME!

And finally the lovely little gem at the end of your argument @Moomin



So this research also states that the majority of e cig users in the 14-25 bracket do smoke, therefore Rubbishes the idea that E cigs target youngsters and therefore rubbishes any idea that the young are vaping without smoking.

Targeting the youth to get them addicted and a customer for life. Only 28% using them as a aid to stop smoking.

You can vault me on this but within a few years we will have a big campaign on stopping youngsters from vaping in the UK. Just open your eyes and see what goings on, I even saw a TV advert with a cowboy vaping on a horse, just like the Marlborough adverts. Wouldn't surprise me if it's the same company.

 

[Tramps_mate]

The majority of health improvements from former smokers to vapers.

See all this talk of 'oh, the future, no one knows long term side effects' that keep getting people riled up. It kinda discounts all the people who's health improves by switching.

In fact short term benefits.are absolutely massive, does that not count for something? Or is the fear of the unknown really that primitive?

Of course the reduction of coughing and wheezing is great. Plus the smell us none smokers have to endure when talking to a smoker being reduced is great.. the long term effects are unknown and could potentially be worse! I'd listen to a chemists opinion on the ingredients of them though...

 

[Ashtonian]

Targeting the youth to get them addicted and a customer for life. Only 28% using them as a aid to stop smoking.

You can vault me on this but within a few years we will have a big campaign on stopping youngsters from vaping in the UK. Just open your eyes and see what goings on, I even saw a TV advert with a cowboy vaping on a horse, just like the Marlborough adverts. Wouldn't surprise me if it's the same company.

Ok mate, you saw that advert did you? What time was it on?

But yeah, look the paper up that your article talks about. Turns out, actual studies in the right age groups have numbers well under 10% of kids to have even tried E Cigarettes rather than being the addicted monsters you make them out to be.

Some statistics include.....

• ASH found last year only 1% of youth in secondary school who had not vaped would consider it
• HSCIC found 1% of secondary school children regulary use E cigarettes
• Another study halbert and palmer found 18 % of 13-18 year olds had tried them but found they were often linked to cigarette usage. So smoked then vaped.

there was a few higher ones as well, which check out the paper if you want to throw them at me, but mainly revolve around tried rather than use.

But here is another little nugget.

A study performed by the ones who wrote said article found 7.6% or 15 regularly use e cigarettes or 15.
Regular smokers through the same age group....22.8% or, 47. Massive difference there 32 more out of the study smoked rather than vaped.

Of course the reduction of coughing and wheezing is great. Plus the smell us none smokers have to endure when talking to a smoker being reduced is great.. the long term effects are unknown and could potentially be worse! I'd listen to a chemists opinion on the ingredients of them though...

Ok mate, you do know one of the main components of e liquid as in one of the biggest ingredients if you will, is also one of the main parts of Asthma inhalers?
Vegetable glycerine also made from vegetables, and is another widely used ingredient in a number of things from cosmetics to Food.

also it has been proven already to be 95% safer than smoking.

SO what do you think they can find in the 5% that is worse than cancer, COPD, lung diease, Enthezema, and whatever else?

 

[The Cowboy]

Ok mate, happily.



start with the headline. Vaping is not smoking. Straight away this article looks jarg as apart from nicotine, neither things share any of the same properties. Good start!



Because it isn't a tobacco habit, it is a nicotine habit. Two different things again.



ok here is the meat of it. 25% of 14-25 year olds, so that is a huge age gap, 11 years worth? What about the 18-25 people then who are legally able to smoke or buy vaping products. How many of the survey were under 18 and how many were over? Very easy to throw an 11 year grap and then aim the whole thing at kids. So jarg research then.



Ok so they have established that the age range goes all the way to 25 right? Flawed again here. first of all attitudes different? Yes, vaping is being banned, smoking isn't. They keep referring to the 'young people' but if that related to a 19 year old then therefore legally able to buy and use said device and therefore makes no odds why they want to use it. You see the flaw in the logic now? If 80% of the aurvey was 18 or over then straight away the poll is pointless. But they haven't supplied that info, funny that.



Oh right, the 14- 25 group socialise with friends do they? Peer group status? Very generalised view there, i mean it isnt like anyone in that 11 year age bracket drink socially, smoke socially, drug socially. No, they all gather round and vape. Hell even if they are, if they are 18 or over why does that even matter?



it does, statistics are out there proving this. That is poor journalism because the statistics are out there for anyone to see they do work for smoking cessation. Want an example? ME!

And finally the lovely little gem at the end of your argument @Moomin



So this research also states that the majority of e cig users in the 14-25 bracket do smoke, therefore Rubbishes the idea that E cigs target youngsters and therefore rubbishes any idea that the young are vaping without smoking.



Oh and moomin, research (something you clearly don't do) tells you the majority of the cases they survied were in fact in the age range of 16-25 as they were all in further education college and above, meaning the findings are fundamentally flawed considering the age range pushes it close to, or above the legal age of vaping.

I admire your tenacity, but there's a whole lot of conflation going on here. You're picking out passages and merely spinning it around to present it in a light favourable to your argument. Doesn't change the facts of the original information though.

 

[Ashtonian]

I admire your tenacity, but there's a whole lot of conflation going on here. You're picking out passages and merely spinning it around to present it in a light favourable to your argument. Doesn't change the facts of the original information though.

I was picking the actual article apart, hence the maqny passages mate.

The parts i didn't pull out were not relevant to anything. I also read the paper (well skimmed it) that the article was taken from as well, if that helps at all

 

[Moomin]

I'm glad the vaping companies are sending a message out to smokers to quit and vape but for non smokers to not try it. I quite clearly got that from this advert

 

[The Cowboy]

I was picking the actual article apart, hence the maqny passages mate.

The parts i didn't pull out were not relevant to anything. I also read the paper (well skimmed it) that the article was taken from as well, if that helps at all

That's not my point. My point is, you may be able to interpret the information and spin it around, but that doesn't make the original statement incorrect. And that's all you've done, just spin it around to fit your viewpoint.

 

[Ashtonian]

@The Cowboy

Passages i didn't pull out include

Prof Measham said: “Our study suggests that vaping is establishing itself as a new phenomenon, independent of traditional smoking.

Prof Measham wants health-bodies to understand this, so they can tailor health warnings to younger vapers

Most of the young people surveyed said cigarettes are very harmful, but they were less clear on whether e-cigarettes were bad for you.

Which i didn't see any relevance to them. Especially the last one, which according to anyone on this site, no-one knows if they are bad for you no matter what the age!

but that study that i have homed in on is essentially flawed and actually hidden research where the actual numbers have been hidden away so in an 11 year age gap study and 7 of the 11 years are legally able to buy the products and use them. What does this tell us? It tells us the paper is not worth the paper it is written on, they could have polled 90% of 18 and above, which would discredit any youth findings because it is legal then.

 

[Ashtonian]

That's not my point. My point is, you may be able to interpret the information and spin it around, but that doesn't make the original statement incorrect. And that's all you've done, just spin it around to fit your viewpoint.

Ok, name one point i have 'spun' for my own argument rather than explain it from what was written?

 

[The Cowboy]

@The Cowboy

Passages i didn't pull out include







Which i didn't see any relevance to them. Especially the last one, which according to anyone on this site, no-one knows if they are bad for you no matter what the age!

but that study that i have homed in on is essentially flawed and actually hidden research where the actual numbers have been hidden away so in an 11 year age gap study and 7 of the 11 years are legally able to buy the products and use them. What does this tell us? It tells us the paper is not worth the paper it is written on, they could have polled 90% of 18 and above, which would discredit any youth findings because it is legal then.

You're clearly not getting my point, so I'll just sign out of this thread with one of my favourite Brasseye quotes:

'If you count a child as someone under the age of 30, a shocking 97% of the UK has had sex with a child'.

 

[Ashtonian]

I'm glad the vaping companies are sending a message out to smokers to quit and vape but for non smokers to not try it. I quite clearly got that from this advert

the target audience is for smokers.

But considering they are shown after 10pm, if your kids are up at that time and watching tv to be influenced by them then more fool you.

 

[Ashtonian]

You're clearly not getting my point, so I'll just sign out of this thread with one of my favourite Brasseye quotes:

'If you count a child as someone under the age of 30, a shocking 97% of the UK has had sex with a child'.

well exactly, so the research is flawed that they based it on to serve their own means. Making the whole thing pointless jarg research

 

[The Cowboy]

well exactly, so the research is flawed that they based it on to serve their own means. Making the whole thing pointless jarg research

Flawed (hence your ability to spin it) but factual (based on the criteria they have expressed).