VAR

[Toffeepot]

Always found it mad that people said VAR would stop the dodgy decisions. It was so, so obvious that it would work the way it has. It’s an awful addition to the game, for every clanged it overturns it creates 20 controversies.

If you watch Rugby at all you'd understand why people thought that. They use it perfectly and you can hear the communication between the officials. I trust Rugby officiating completely now, and so do the players.
The Prem was supposed to put recordings of Var decisions on youtube this season instead of having it as it happens but it never happened

 

[Lanolin]

If you watch Rugby at all you'd understand why people thought that. They use it perfectly and you can hear the communication between the officials. I trust Rugby officiating completely now, and so do the players.
The Prem was supposed to put recordings of Var decisions on youtube this season instead of having it as it happens but it never happened

I do, and to be honest i'm not sure it works quite as perfectly in rugby as people claim when talking about football. I've watched loads of games where players/fans/commentators have all been quite confused by a decision. There was a pretty high profile example just this weekend of most people thinking it hadn't been used well in rugby union. I think people maybe just accept things in rugby slightly differently to how they do in football too, as well as a lot of football's laws being a bit more down to intepretation. Being able to hear the officials would make the decision making more transparent, but it wouldn't necessarily make it better. As an example, hearing a referee say 'I don't think Rodri has handballed that' wouldn't tell us anything we didn't already know about that decision last season, we can gather that from the decision itself, we'd still have a crap decision, we'd just hear the excuse in real time instead of later.

 

[Toffeepot]

I do, and to be honest i'm not sure it works quite as perfectly in rugby as people claim when talking about football. I've watched loads of games where players/fans/commentators have all been quite confused by a decision. There was a pretty high profile example just this weekend of most people thinking it hadn't been used well in rugby union. I think people maybe just accept things in rugby slightly differently to how they do in football too, as well as a lot of football's laws being a bit more down to intepretation. Being able to hear the officials would make the decision making more transparent, but it wouldn't necessarily make it better. As an example, hearing a referee say 'I don't think Rodri has handballed that' wouldn't tell us anything we didn't already know about that decision last season, we can gather that from the decision itself, we'd still have a crap decision, we'd just hear the excuse in real time instead of later.

the transparency makes it better, and more honest, because the official is aware of potentially millions listening to them analyse it. As it is now, there is no accountability. Hearing them discuss it, carrys an extra responsibility akin to how people would speak to each other in person differently to how they would speak to each other online. Any layers of opacity should be removed if it is to stand any chance.
I'd love to hear them try to explain that Wolves 'offside' goal in real time

 

[catcherintherye]

But it needs a human element, that's the point. 'Cameras work' isn't really much of a point is it? We know cameras work, they have for ages. VAR as a concept absolutely has to include somebody making a decision, so 'VAR is fine, it's just the people using it' just doesn't work as an argument on any level, because one can't exist without the other.

In my nerdy way, I remember saying similar a while back.

Go on any legal course around evidence, and they will do a huge amount of how camera footage doesnt give you an impartial answer. It doesnt solve all arguments. It's a piece of evidence that helps in the process of finding an answer. What angle its placed at, where you stop it, what you show, what you dont show etc all come in.

It was sold to football fans as the resolution of all problems. But it couldnt have been that. Unless you get some AI running the game, it wont be that, and even if you did that, there will be questions of biases of whoever programs them AI.

But honestly with VAR, it's the worst of every world. They have no idea why they are using it, no parameters of what its trying to do, and football fans who have unrealistic expectations of what it can do. It's just added another level of grey area, and for me has just made things worse.

 

[Lanolin]

In my nerdy way, I remember saying similar a while back.

Go on any legal course around evidence, and they will do a huge amount of how camera footage doesnt give you an impartial answer. It doesnt solve all arguments. It's a piece of evidence that helps in the process of finding an answer. What angle its placed at, where you stop it, what you show, what you dont show etc all come in.

It was sold to football fans as the resolution of all problems. But it couldnt have been that. Unless you get some AI running the game, it wont be that, and even if you did that, there will be questions of biases of whoever programs them AI.

But honestly with VAR, it's the worst of every world. They have no idea why they are using it, no parameters of what its trying to do, and football fans who have unrealistic expectations of what it can do. It's just added another level of grey area, and for me has just made things worse.

Yep, agree with every word.

 

[davep]

How can you run a competition ie the FA cup where VAR is not used it all the games surely this cannot be considered fair .

Which begs the question would our 2nd "goal" have been allowed

I do think its mad tbh. They dont have a license to use it outside of premier league grounds.
so if cardiff get something similar at home to leeds in the cup this weekend it stands.
Nice rule.

I don't particularly have an issue with it as both teams will have decisions scrutinised. If it had been the other way around we would have benefited. I do struggle with how far they go back to revisit things. I think it should be restricted to just the goalscorer.
I still think VAR itself sucks the spontaneity out of football.

Don't have a problem with our goal not standing - it sucks, but it was offside - but the rules and technology/lack of to administer them should be the same for all games within the same competition/round.

 

[davep]

If you watch Rugby at all you'd understand why people thought that. They use it perfectly and you can hear the communication between the officials. I trust Rugby officiating completely now, and so do the players.
The Prem was supposed to put recordings of Var decisions on youtube this season instead of having it as it happens but it never happened

I find it absolutely baffling, given how rugby (TMO) and cricket (hawkeye, snickometer etc) have used similar technology for years, that football could possibly get VAR so badly wrong for so long, and not even fix it. All they have to do is speak to those governing bodies and ask someone to advise/consult on it, but apparently that is too much to ask. May as well have our board running it....

 

[arch stanton]

I think it should be decided that a goodly proportion of the body be over the line not half a foot !

that wont work as you will get differing opinions depending on the team involved. They should get one look at it at real or even half speed, if it isn't obvious from that, the attacker is deemed to be level and therefore onside.

 

[arch stanton]

I find it absolutely baffling, given how rugby (TMO) and cricket (hawkeye, snickometer etc) have used similar technology for years, that football could possibly get VAR so badly wrong for so long, and not even fix it. All they have to do is speak to those governing bodies and ask someone to advise/consult on it, but apparently that is too much to ask. May as well have our board running it....

It is almost as if they don't want it to work properly and fairly...

 

[davep]

It is almost as if they don't want it to work properly and fairly...

I don't buy into conspiracies about them wanting to protect certain teams/having an agenda against others. But I do think there is certainly an aspect of them bowing to pressure from certain quarters more than others, and that enough is not being applied to them over issues like this to overcome it.

 

[Lanolin]

I find it absolutely baffling, given how rugby (TMO) and cricket (hawkeye, snickometer etc) have used similar technology for years, that football could possibly get VAR so badly wrong for so long, and not even fix it. All they have to do is speak to those governing bodies and ask someone to advise/consult on it, but apparently that is too much to ask. May as well have our board running it....

I think a lot of people who think it works perfectly in rugby are casual observers who don't really care about the outcome of games, and don't necessarily understand the rules very well, so they just watch a game and believe that the process has been great because they're not particularly invested in it. They then watch football where they're fiercely partisan and have a much better understanding of the game, and find the whole thing infuriating. Fans/players/coaches/commentators of rugby don't think it's perfect by any means, there's plenty of articles about it, involving both codes:

NRL referees are in a no-win situation - it’s time to strip the video referee’s powers

Time to hit pause on video machine

www.foxsports.com.au

TV refereeing is ruining rugby league – all in the pursuit of perfection | Matt Cleary

After last week’s Cronulla/Canberra Raiders debacle it is clear that TV angles may mean less ‘errors’, but they hurt the game by slowing it down

www.theguardian.com

'How on earth': Rugby League fans erupt over 'awful' World Cup call

PNG fans were left fuming at a controversial call at the Rugby League World Cup. Find out what happened here.

au.sports.yahoo.com

Under-pressure video referees to explain decisions to millions of viewers

Video refs to explain decision

www.foxsports.com.au

TMO is ruining rugby, says Eddie Jones

England head coach plans to confront lawmakers if referees continue to be put under pressure to get every decision right

www.telegraph.co.uk

Precedent is everything in the murky, confused world of TMO decisions

The rumbling row over the TMO’s decision not to award a try to Wales’s Gareth Anscombe against England highlights another grey area in the game’s laws

www.theguardian.com

 

[NathDogg]

Can’t agree that it has added more gray areas - it’s blatantly being used and corrupted to favour certain teams and decisions.

There is enough technology and cameras to prevent the mistakes and errors that are being made, but yet they keep on making them, and it’s the same teams who are benefiting from them.

Then the same old tropes rolled out with apologies/technology failed/clear and obvious nonsense/unintentional handballs/dodgy lines drawn and changes to rules that were perfectly fine - this could be due to unconscious bias from the refs and var officials which is clouding their judgement, or more sinisterly and likely, concisions bias and outright corruptions and cheating to help certain teams.

It’s an absolute shambles and the death of the game.

 

[arch stanton]

I don't buy into conspiracies about them wanting to protect certain teams/having an agenda against others. But I do think there is certainly an aspect of them bowing to pressure from certain quarters more than others, and that enough is not being applied to them over issues like this to overcome it.

its 'good for the brand' if those teams do well

 

[Toffeepot]

I find it absolutely baffling, given how rugby (TMO) and cricket (hawkeye, snickometer etc) have used similar technology for years, that football could possibly get VAR so badly wrong for so long, and not even fix it. All they have to do is speak to those governing bodies and ask someone to advise/consult on it, but apparently that is too much to ask. May as well have our board running it....

Seems like a pride/arrogance thing to me. They'd rather stumble on it 'accidentally' after years of misuse and pretend they cracked it all by themselves. Baffling

 

[everton1953]

How much compo can Wolves get following their appeal against official's incompetence/corruption at the end of the game at analfield? Probably depends on them losing in the replay.