JordanianEmbassy
Player Valuation: £5m
Can someone just make it go away please. Thanks.
VAR should never of been used until the decision making system became really really good. Hawkeye is a good example for the goal line technology. I think it’s failed once in about 8 years, which is good going.
VAR is a failed technology. It was brought in before it was developed and it has therefore led to some shocking decisions. It’s no wonder that people say the decisions go for the big teams when things like Man City’s handball against us and an offside against Wolves at Liverpool the other night just seem to keep happening over and over again. Allan’s red card against Newcastle will live long in my memory. A tackle which happens still in nearly every game where players counter attack and a player essentially takes out that player. Allan is the only player I have ever seen sent off for this, with VAR advising the yellow be over turned.
It’s still such an awful decision and baffles me to this day. The ref’s must of been devastated when we scored in the 97th minute.
VAR is a failed technology. It was brought in before it was developed and it has therefore led to some shocking decisions. It’s no wonder that people say the decisions go for the big teams when things like Man City’s handball against us and an offside against Wolves at Liverpool the other night just seem to keep happening over and over again. Allan’s red card against Newcastle will live long in my memory. A tackle which happens still in nearly every game where players counter attack and a player essentially takes out that player. Allan is the only player I have ever seen sent off for this, with VAR advising the yellow be over turned.
It’s still such an awful decision and baffles me to this day. The ref’s must of been devastated when we scored in the 97th minute.
Haven't read all those links, but had a look at the bottom two, and mainly the arguments there seem to be that it's being used too much, or they don't like when/how it's used, or the precedent it sets, not actually how good the decisions and judgements made are. Either way, I think it's clear that while they may not "think it's perfect", that is a far sight better than how VAR is being implemented currently. I have also watched a decent enough amount of RU over the years, however I don't think that is necessarily essential to be able to follow their process and have an idea if the decisions are good or not, as there is a lot of communication between them that we get to listen in to.I think a lot of people who think it works perfectly in rugby are casual observers who don't really care about the outcome of games, and don't necessarily understand the rules very well, so they just watch a game and believe that the process has been great because they're not particularly invested in it. They then watch football where they're fiercely partisan and have a much better understanding of the game, and find the whole thing infuriating. Fans/players/coaches/commentators of rugby don't think it's perfect by any means, there's plenty of articles about it, involving both codes:
NRL referees are in a no-win situation - it’s time to strip the video referee’s powers
Time to hit pause on video machinewww.foxsports.com.au
TV refereeing is ruining rugby league – all in the pursuit of perfection | Matt Cleary
After last week’s Cronulla/Canberra Raiders debacle it is clear that TV angles may mean less ‘errors’, but they hurt the game by slowing it downwww.theguardian.com
'How on earth': Rugby League fans erupt over 'awful' World Cup call
PNG fans were left fuming at a controversial call at the Rugby League World Cup. Find out what happened here.au.sports.yahoo.com
Under-pressure video referees to explain decisions to millions of viewers
Video refs to explain decision
TMO is ruining rugby, says Eddie Jones
England head coach plans to confront lawmakers if referees continue to be put under pressure to get every decision rightwww.telegraph.co.uk
Precedent is everything in the murky, confused world of TMO decisions
The rumbling row over the TMO’s decision not to award a try to Wales’s Gareth Anscombe against England highlights another grey area in the game’s laws
That's not really true though. It's the people implementing it and making the decions that are the problem, not the tech or the system.
Yes it's often believed to be used too much (although it's funny that you only read the 2 that say that, and not the others which are about the quality) but that's relevant when the point was about speaking to the other sports about how it's implemented. Using it too much is a major issue in the way it's been implemented in other sports and so the issue becomes fundamentally the same on we have in football - people think it's ruining the game.
I think the communication argument is funny personally. Nobody really wants communication from the refs, they want the 'right' decisions. Communication from the refs would mean in the Liverpool game on Saturday the VAR would have said 'Yeah I think the defender has deliberately played at that' and 'I haven't got an angle that proves he's not offside so you'll have to stick with the original decision'. What would that tell us that we don't already know? Nothing, that is clearly what has happened regardless of whether we hear him say it or not, and so nobody would be happy with it. It's very much like the current Moshiri situation - people say they want communication, but then go absolutely mad when they get it, because it doesn't say what they wanted it to say. 'We want communication' means ' I want you to tell me what i want to hear', nobody is interested in hearing the referee talking you through how he's coming to the wrong decision.
Haha yeah, odd coincidence! But still a separate issue, and one I'd much rather have (being used to much). If football could use VAR correctly then you'd get many less complaints that it is ruining football, and then we could tackle the issue of quantity of usage, as opposed to quality.
Pretty much every game I see where there are controversial decisions fans and pundits complain about not knowing what the referees were thinking, or why they've made a certain decision. I think people would most likely want to hear the communication even if it was "incorrect" or wasn't "what they wanted to hear" - at least then they would know the reasoning behind things as opposed to assuming/guessing. You can't properly deal with wrong decisions if you don't know how/why they are being made. 100% one of the best things about TMO etc is that you can hear the conversation between the people making the decision.
The Moshiri case for example, is not (or at least shouldn't be) that now he's spoken they don't want him to, but that they want him to not spout nonsense/harmful things. That is a different issue, and one that couldn't even be tackled/resolved if the lack of communcation issue wasn't overcome in the first place.
The problem I see with VAR is the bias that these referees have that they are unaware of ,they have been taught to favour the top teams ,perhaps because their 1000 per match has jumped a lot higher due to Sky -who favour the top teams - providing a bigger fund for the FA and clubs ,directly or / and indirectly .
Another thing that needs to stop is this swarming around the referee ,sometimes 6 or 8 of the players from one team surround him ,that has to influence him eventually .They should make a rule only the captain or as with for us a designated outfield player (Pickford runs around enough ) it is becoming a farse at penalties especially .
Another thing that needs to stop is this swarming around the referee ,sometimes 6 or 8 of the players from one team surround him ,that has to influence him eventually .They should make a rule only the captain or as with for us a designated outfield player (Pickford runs around enough ) it is becoming a farse at penalties especially .
I disagree. The tech failed the other night at the Liverpool Wolves game.
blue_aussie05
Player Valuation: £8m
The thing with our footy refs not wanting to be mic’d up raises a valid question - what are they actually talking about with the VAR officials? I’ve heard lots of conspiracy theories over the years about refs covering up dodgy decisions intentionally made in favour of the big clubs. I know bias and incompetence definitely exists, but I’m not sure blatant corruption does. Being mic’d up would certainly go a long way to providing transparency.
JelavicBrate2
Player Valuation: £8m
VAR should be scrapped altogether, I don't think it has improved anything. Bad decisions are still made, most notably Rodris handball. Then you have the offside goals, nobody cares if someone is slightly offside. Other than when we got a goal chalked off at Blackburn once, I can't remember too many bad decisions. When we got that goal disallowed at Anfield, when Reina just walked into Anichebe, that was just RS bias. The clattenburg game was another example. The reality is since Sky got involved in the game, everything has become about the top teams, nobody else matters. The fixtures are designed to benefit the big clubs, why did we always end up playing the RS 2nd at Anfield, and of course this year it's a night game, so the atmosphere is better, whereas ours was at midday. Whenever the big sides lose, rather than praising the other team, everything is focused on the big side being poor.
I disagree, the tech and the system shouldn't reused for the purposes it is being used. The people involved obviously have no idea of the complexities of video footage, intracoded, predictive/bi-predictive frames, interpolation, macro blocks etc etc.
the people running things are either incredibly stupid not to know this or are clever enough to understand how this could be used to promote favourable outcomes under the cover of impartiality. Hmm...
PGMOL issuing apologies for ‘human error’ in AFC and BHAFC match’s this weekend.
Money spend on this rubbish and it still comes down to clowns like Lee Mason forgetting to draw lines ffs.
These refs are disgrace really, can’t even get a decision right sat on their backsides surrounded by millions of £ of tech and a support staff of hundreds no doubt.
Money spend on this rubbish and it still comes down to clowns like Lee Mason forgetting to draw lines ffs.
These refs are disgrace really, can’t even get a decision right sat on their backsides surrounded by millions of £ of tech and a support staff of hundreds no doubt.
I mentioned this earlier in another thread, but these apologies are worthless as there is zero accountability for those involved in refereeing the games.
Will Lee Mason be sanctioned? No, he'll continue to referee at the highest level and, like many others, will continue to make mistakes, with more apologies.
If he's lucky, he may get told to not referee a game next week, all on full pay. If he's unlucky, he'll referee down a tier or two for a week before pushed back up.
Talk of him getting the tin tack. I hope so the sweaty mess.
They’ve certainly thrown him under the bus to a certain extent, the ‘human error’ excuse is unusual, they typically close ranks and stink it out until the fuss dies down
The chance of this is very, very unlikely. The PGMOL manage themselves in a way where they're sustained in their own bubble, with little accountability.
Look how many apologies we've had in the past, but it hasn't changed anything for us or anyone else.