Who should be starting keeper vs. Sunderland

[davek]

Four goals in those three games I mentioned tells me its unravelled (?) pretty quickly already. The most diplomatic thing Roberto could do is tell Howard he's out for a while, as Pellegrini did with Joe Hart last year, and tell Joel the shirt's his for the immediate future! This is a big call by Martinez because if TH messes up it won't just be him in the firing line Roberto will be as well big time!

I see it the opposite way: it'd help RM out on this key decision.

As said earlier, he's giving Howard a chance to turn it around; if he doesn't then he's also gives him enough rope and he has a very simple decision to make.

It is time we had competition between these two GKs, that's my position. But we wont see a satisfactory resolution until we buy another keeper.

 

[neil999]

what we dont get to see is communication between team-mates, how training goes etc...im not defending howard, but we dont get to see everything and all the reasons for decisions made

people were going mad about mirallas not playing, was hardly brilliant last night was he...

 

[Khalekan]

As said earlier, he's giving Howard a chance to turn it around; if he doesn't then he's also gives him enough rope and he has a very simple decision to make.

I cannot accept that, Dave.

I cannot accept a manager watching a goalkeeper make mistake after mistake until he makes enough to justify dropping him.

That way lies madness.

Bobby either thinks he is good enough to play or he doesn't.

If he continues playing him then so be it.

But no.....he cannot sit there placing the last line of defence on a totting up system.

 

[Woolly Blue]

Tony Coton was the United GK coach at the time and he and TH did not get on. Howard was scathing about him in his biography.

I suspect that might have coloured your United associate's view of him.

To be fair, decent but never really top four material is pretty much how I'd have summed up Howard's career.

There's no shame in not being top four material, not everyone can be. Hopefully his decline isn't terminal and I dare say we'll find out for sure over the course of this season.

 

[Khalekan]

To be fair, decent but never really top four material is pretty much how I'd have summed up Howard's career.

There's no shame in not being top four material, not everyone can be. Hopefully his decline isn't terminal and I dare say we'll find out for sure over the course of this season.

I don't know what "top four material" in a goalkeeoer really is.


In the "top four" CL era I can only think of Schmiecal and Cech whom were out of the ordinary.

Lehman perhaps......and De Gea may well join that group eventually.

But other than that Arsenal and United both have had a succession of less than top class or even dodgy goalkeepers.

And whilst Reina had a couple good seasons over at The Pit, he wasn't an elite goalkeeoer.

I would say Tim in his heyday would have been as good as at least 75% of goalkeepers playing for English clubs in the top four and better than most of them.

Alas that heyday is long gone

 

[davek]

I cannot accept that, Dave.

I cannot accept a manager watching a goalkeeper make mistake after mistake until he makes enough to justify dropping him.

That way lies madness.

Bobby either thinks he is good enough to play or he doesn't.

If he continues playing him then so be it.

But no.....he cannot sit there placing the last line of defence on a totting up system.

I hear you and others on this. It's defo coming to a head and something must give.

The only difference I have with you is the protocol involved here needs to be observed. Howard is not a Mirallas or Distin or some other barrack room lawyer with a titty lip that needs relegating to the bench; he's a highly respected father figure in the squad. You dont unceremoniously dump them. Martinez has put him on notice after the Arsenal clangers with his comment about his GK needing to do better there (practically a dressing down for Roberto). If he screws up again against S'land he's demoted.

 

[sageyefc]

I hear you and others on this. It's defo coming to a head and something must give.

The only difference I have with you is the protocol involved here needs to be observed. Howard is not a Mirallas or Distin or some other barrack room lawyer with a titty lip that needs relegating to the bench; he's a highly respected father figure in the squad. You dont unceremoniously dump them. Martinez has put him on notice after the Arsenal clangers with his comment about his GK needing to do better there (practically a dressing down for Roberto). If he screws up again against S'land he's demoted.

Father figure in the dressing room? Based on what?

 

[davek]

To be fair, decent but never really top four material is pretty much how I'd have summed up Howard's career.

There's no shame in not being top four material, not everyone can be. Hopefully his decline isn't terminal and I dare say we'll find out for sure over the course of this season.

He's been better than average for us, I'd say. People need to remember that. I agree he should be being pushed to the exit now, but he can at least provide Robles with some competition until that happens.

 

[IRO1977]

Father figure in the dressing room? Based on what?

His beard

 

[orly]

Father figure in the dressing room? Based on what?

His beard

Ah, you mean a Father Christmas figure?

 

[davek]

Father figure in the dressing room? Based on what?

He's obviously well respected and Martinez has stressed a number of times (this week included) that he's a very influential and important figure in the dressing room.

 

[deipnosophist]

He's obviously well respected and Martinez has stressed a number of times (this week included) that he's a very influential and important figure in the dressing room.

For me, there is a disconnect between Martinez's utterances and actuality/reality...it's become his shtick.

 

[daz4matty]

Joel has got to start on sunday.
martinez has tried sticking with howard and its not working,howard is actually getting worse.
We cannot gamble with league points and he needs to be brave and make the right descision.
Joel did well enough last night to deserve a starting place sunday

 

[Caolam]

I appreciate the value of a person who commands respect in the changing room. A player younger players can look up to. But to command respect you have to command your place in the team. When that player is costing the team points and is struggling with form then it is difficult to look up to him. I remember being a young player listening to older players laying down the law in changing rooms, they got the respect they deserved.
I also remember giving team talks as the most experienced player on a team. When I had come to the end of my run and was being picked simply because I had been always been picked younger players stopped listening.
Players command respect by leading by example, telling players what to do when you can't do it yourself, is management.

 

[diggerdestroyer]

Tony Coton was the United GK coach at the time and he and TH did not get on. Howard was scathing about him in his biography.

I suspect that might have coloured your United associate's view of him.

Maybe inspector sherlock! but it does not colour my everton view on him. He has recently and currently been utter rubbish as a premiership keeper.