Young EFC Players Out On Loan 17-18

[blueloon]

He is not a left back

Shame for the lad. He looked on a par with Holgate 2 seasons ago but he's not had a good time since then at all.

Both these statements are true, and when he played alongside Holgate at u21/23 level he looked the better CEntre Back. But that was at a young level , and we've only seen him play LB for our first team , from memory Pullin only played him at LB in his few games for WBA, and at best he'll only get game time at LB for Sunderland. By the end of this season that will be 3 seasons down the line where we've never seen him play centre back at a senior level.
Therefore we are in a poor position to judge his ability as a centre back at a senior level, we just haven't seen him at this level. One argument of course is that he hasn't had a chance and deserves one , but three managers in the past 13 months have looked at him and decided he wasn't good enough to warrant a chance at centre back , Koeman, Pullis and now Simon Grayson. He was a breath of fresh air when he played those games at LB for us , despite his limitations . He's too young to give up on , but I fear for him now as he just hadn't pushed on and it may take some special performances to get back into the reckoning with us . From what I saw of him today he's going to struggle.

 

[Klinker]

Both these statements are true, and when he played alongside Holgate at u21/23 level he looked the better CEntre Back. But that was at a young level , and we've only seen him play LB for our first team , from memory Pullin only played him at LB in his few games for WBA, and at best he'll only get game time at LB for Sunderland. By the end of this season that will be 3 seasons down the line where we've never seen him play centre back at a senior level.
Therefore we are in a poor position to judge his ability as a centre back at a senior level, we just haven't seen him at this level. One argument of course is that he hasn't had a chance and deserves one , but three managers in the past 13 months have looked at him and decided he wasn't good enough to warrant a chance at centre back , Koeman, Pullis and now Simon Grayson. He was a breath of fresh air when he played those games at LB for us , despite his limitations . He's too young to give up on , but I fear for him now as he just hadn't pushed on and it may take some special performances to get back into the reckoning with us . From what I saw of him today he's going to struggle.

I never really rated him, to be fair but I don't see him ever being up to our new standards. Right now he needs to focus on being good enough for the PL.

 

[johnnydawg68]

I'm a fan of Browning. Watched all of their cup game against Bury and he is just solid. He's not Michael Keane or anything but next year I'd have him over Williams and Jags as cover at CB in a new York minute.

 

[messymascot]

Galloway needs to be played at centre back but with Browning already playing as one of the centre backs I imagine Grayson will be reluctant to have 2 inexperienced centre backs. If he went 3 at the back is the only way I can see both Browning and Galloway being picked in their preferred positions. I think Koeman must not rate Galloway as he allowed him to leave on loan even though he knew we were short on left sided centre backs and left backs.

 

[atrottel]

Championship
Barnsley - Joe Williams played full match in 0-1 away defeat to local rivals Sheffield United

OS Match Report

Twitter stuff
9 - Joe Williams brings down Sharp on the edge of the box and the home side have a free-kick in a dangerous area.
82 - Enda Stevens is the latest to be booked for chopping down Williams

Fan comments
"Williams... Why are people on his case????! Some cracking tackles, not great distribution... ( well, every time he got a tackle in.... the ball broke loose and it came back at us...... NOT HIS FAULT!!'"
"The kid is soft as [Poor language removed]. Can't pass, can't defend and certainly can't shoot."
"No other options and has carries the other two"
"Williams was supposed to be a strong midfielder who protects the defence he did none of that..."
"Williams absolutely awful. Must have been seeing things today because as times his passes were yards away from barnsley players, even short passes."
"Midfield today not good enough, but remember the lad is raw and only making his 5th senior appearance. How many young lads have we seen turn it round after a poor performance. Games good and bad will build experience. He'll come good, was 1 of 10 who has a very bad day."
"Grafted his jacobs off on Tuesday. Probably the first experience of such an intensive match followed by another in his short career to date. Happy to cut him some slack."

Nottingham Forest - Kieran Dowell played full match in 2-1 home win over Middlesbrough

OS Match Report
"On 16 minutes though Forest broke the deadlock with a well-worked goal from McKay. Kieran Dowell turned well in the middle of the park and played a sublime ball through which McKay latched onto. The Scotsman then calmly rounded the onrushing Randolph and slotted into the back of the net."
"It was an entertaining game and Forest doubled their lead from the penalty spot on 79 minutes. Dowell chipped a ball into the box for sub Ben Brereton but he was bundled over by Gibson in the area and Murphy stepped up confidently to fire into the bottom corner past the dive of Randolph."

Twitter stuff
12' #NFFC 0-0 MFC: Kieran Dowell takes the ball down well and unleashes a dipping half-volley which narrowly clears the crossbar.
17' #NFFC 1-0 MFC: Beautiful turn and pass from Dowell sets Barrie McKay in on goal and he slots the ball past Randolph to put Forest ahead.

Fan comments
"Dowell - 7. He will only get better and better by the looks of it. Still a bit naive and light-weighted at times, but some of the passes and combinations with his team-mates were excellent"
"Dowell & Mackay give us options which we've not had for years."
"Dowell doesn't look like he can do more than 60 minutes to me at the moment. Had a great first half but really faded in the second to the point where the team were carrying him. Just couldn't keep up with play."
"he is very, very good, we should enjoy him this season, doubt we're going to get him after that."
"He's sheer class and will without doubt be a top player. Gives it away trying a bit much sometimes but when it comes off, and so far it usually does, he looks too good."
"He has a base level of quality that really stands out. Not the finished article yet but he is the type of player who does things that no one else in the stadium sees until he's done it. Going to be an England international one day if he progresses well. If he can add a physical side to his game and become a dominant athlete, he would be absolutely outstanding. Best midfielder I've seen at Forest since Aaron Ramsey."
"He may have tired in the second half but still managed to run past Murphy and cross it in for the penalty"
"Probably should have come off rather than McKay. He's got a great first touch and pass in him, agile too, but he tires very, very quickly. Was anonymous today after HT and likewise at Brentford. Was a bit more active against Barnsley but I think that's because they were just rubbish so even Dowell at half-performance was taking the piss."
"Most of whats good going forward goes through Dowell. There was lots today, so his performance shouldn't be understated."
"Thought he drifted out the game for large periods, gave it away in key areas a few times in the second half but provided a key assist with a lovely pass. Still work to do with him but you can see he has so much quality."

...and much more in similar vein.

Sunderland - Tyias Browning played full match while Galloway started, was booked and subbed in 55th minute of 0-2 home defeat to Leeds United

OS Match Report
"The Black Cats were desperately unlucky not to gain an early advantage as a flurry of chances came and went, with Grabban inches away from connecting as Brendan Galloway flashed a ball across the face of goal."
"...and the right flank continued to provide a source of optimism for the visitors. And just a few minutes later, Alisoki was toying with Galloway again, but this time Pablo Hernandez failed to hit the target with the former Valencia forward’s header looping wide."
"Matthews was also introduced after Galloway pulled up and was unable to play on."

Twitter stuff
6' Lovely pull back from Galloway - just too much on it for @grabbs22, who slid into the box and narrowly missed out!
43' #SAFC withstand more pressure as Browning does well to win the ball off Ekuban. United turning the screw.

Fan comments
"Galloway was quite obviously not up to it yet again, he is not a full back and looks way out of his depth in that position. He should have been off before half time. He's a poor signing. The lad was replaced due to injury, Grayson would have petsisted with him despite him failing to do the basics."
"we're crying out for a fit and firing Oviedo as Galloway was dreadful today. His concentration, positional play and decision making were all sadly lacking."
"He didn't do much wrong today(Browning), cleared his lines and looked solid."
"He's OK going forward but looks way out of his depth defending." (Galloway)
"he could have easily been subbed in tbe first 30mins. a nightmare performance, has to be one of the worst individual performances ive seen over the last few years" (Galloway)
"Suspect his confidence is now shot to bits (which is not surprising) and I wondered if he was really injured when he went down and then was subbed." (Galloway)
"I've been impressed with Browning."
"He clearly has potential but I'd much prefer someone more "commanding". It's difficult to tell how good he is mind given he's partnered with a half arsed Kone and flanked by Galloway and Jones." (Browning)

Antonee Robinson was an unused sub for Bolton Wanderers

Comments from fellow Leeds defender Pontus Jansson about Matthew Pennington (still no word about severity of his injury):

Leeds signed 22-year-old Pennington on a season-long loan from Everton at the beginning of August and Jansson says the young Toffees defender is a similar type of player to Manchester United’s new Swedish recruit Victor Lindelöf who cost £31m. Lindelöf is a player Jansson knows well through his exploits with the Swedish national side. “Matthew is good and when I see him he is a bit of Victor Lindelöf who is at Manchester United,” said Jansson. “I play with him in the national team. “They are quite similar in how they play, quite fast, good with the ball and defensively also really good. He is going to be good for us.”

 

[atrottel]

Personal view - I watched much of the Barnsley game as I hadn't seen Joe Williams in action this season yet and Barnsley were an attractive footballing side last season.

I thought he put in a poor performance in a very poor side, who were second-best all over the pitch. In defence, on occasion he would dive in and miss a tackle, resulting in a hole behind him while on attack his distribution was surprisingly inaccurate (if I remember rightly, he had a stretch of breaking down three attacks by passing to the opposition). On a positive side, even though he was having a bit of a nightmare he was still looking for the ball and happy to show for the pass.

Thinking about it afterwards, his game probably summed up why loans are necessary. If you are at the level where you are going to be loaned out to the Championship or above, then you have probably been pretty much a rising star in the Academy. That means you can afford to have a wayward game or play some poor passes and staff may criticise but still see the potential of your positive moments.

On loan, this is real life. When you give the ball away on attack, that's your team-mates who have busted a gut to run up the field with you to try to get an equaliser which will stop the thousands of fans getting on their back and the manager decide to shake up the team. And it's real life for you now as well. No longer all about potential, it's about whether you get the chance at Everton or end up at Colwyn Bay thinking about what might have been.

On balance, I think Joe Williams possibly needs to stop the Academy 'style' where you are trying to do the right things and start playing professional percentage football (i.e. get rid rather than doing a Stones near your own box).

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Personal view - I watched much of the Barnsley game as I hadn't seen Joe Williams in action this season yet and Barnsley were an attractive footballing side last season.

I thought he put in a poor performance in a very poor side, who were second-best all over the pitch. In defence, on occasion he would dive in and miss a tackle, resulting in a hole behind him while on attack his distribution was surprisingly inaccurate (if I remember rightly, he had a stretch of breaking down three attacks by passing to the opposition). On a positive side, even though he was having a bit of a nightmare he was still looking for the ball and happy to show for the pass.

Thinking about it afterwards, his game probably summed up why loans are necessary. If you are at the level where you are going to be loaned out to the Championship or above, then you have probably been pretty much a rising star in the Academy. That means you can afford to have a wayward game or play some poor passes and staff may criticise but still see the potential of your positive moments.

On loan, this is real life. When you give the ball away on attack, that's your team-mates who have busted a gut to run up the field with you to try to get an equaliser which will stop the thousands of fans getting on their back and the manager decide to shake up the team. And it's real life for you now as well. No longer all about potential, it's about whether you get the chance at Everton or end up at Colwyn Bay thinking about what might have been.

On balance, I think Joe Williams possibly needs to stop the Academy 'style' where you are trying to do the right things and start playing professional percentage football (i.e. get rid rather than doing a Stones near your own box).

I agree. That's exactly what these loans are for. Hopefully the youngsters will improve as their loans progress and they gain that exposure to senior football.

 

[Eggs]

Personal view - I watched much of the Barnsley game as I hadn't seen Joe Williams in action this season yet and Barnsley were an attractive footballing side last season.

I thought he put in a poor performance in a very poor side, who were second-best all over the pitch. In defence, on occasion he would dive in and miss a tackle, resulting in a hole behind him while on attack his distribution was surprisingly inaccurate (if I remember rightly, he had a stretch of breaking down three attacks by passing to the opposition). On a positive side, even though he was having a bit of a nightmare he was still looking for the ball and happy to show for the pass.

Thinking about it afterwards, his game probably summed up why loans are necessary. If you are at the level where you are going to be loaned out to the Championship or above, then you have probably been pretty much a rising star in the Academy. That means you can afford to have a wayward game or play some poor passes and staff may criticise but still see the potential of your positive moments.

On loan, this is real life. When you give the ball away on attack, that's your team-mates who have busted a gut to run up the field with you to try to get an equaliser which will stop the thousands of fans getting on their back and the manager decide to shake up the team. And it's real life for you now as well. No longer all about potential, it's about whether you get the chance at Everton or end up at Colwyn Bay thinking about what might have been.

On balance, I think Joe Williams possibly needs to stop the Academy 'style' where you are trying to do the right things and start playing professional percentage football (i.e. get rid rather than doing a Stones near your own box).

...be interesting how he settles. Let's not forget, he's played little or no football for the past 12 months or so and even then it was within his age group. He really is thrown in at the deep end here, he seems to have a bit of attitude about him so he might just come through this.

 

[jonnyboy316]

Both these statements are true, and when he played alongside Holgate at u21/23 level he looked the better CEntre Back. But that was at a young level , and we've only seen him play LB for our first team , from memory Pullin only played him at LB in his few games for WBA, and at best he'll only get game time at LB for Sunderland. By the end of this season that will be 3 seasons down the line where we've never seen him play centre back at a senior level.
Therefore we are in a poor position to judge his ability as a centre back at a senior level, we just haven't seen him at this level. One argument of course is that he hasn't had a chance and deserves one , but three managers in the past 13 months have looked at him and decided he wasn't good enough to warrant a chance at centre back , Koeman, Pullis and now Simon Grayson. He was a breath of fresh air when he played those games at LB for us , despite his limitations . He's too young to give up on , but I fear for him now as he just hadn't pushed on and it may take some special performances to get back into the reckoning with us . From what I saw of him today he's going to struggle.

I actually think both Galloway and a Holgate find themselves in the same position. Neither of them are natural full backs but both lack the physicality to be a CB in a back 4. Both probably need to be part of a back 3 which in fairness seems to be back in vogue

 

[jceverton]

Personal view - I watched much of the Barnsley game as I hadn't seen Joe Williams in action this season yet and Barnsley were an attractive footballing side last season.

I thought he put in a poor performance in a very poor side, who were second-best all over the pitch. In defence, on occasion he would dive in and miss a tackle, resulting in a hole behind him while on attack his distribution was surprisingly inaccurate (if I remember rightly, he had a stretch of breaking down three attacks by passing to the opposition). On a positive side, even though he was having a bit of a nightmare he was still looking for the ball and happy to show for the pass.

Thinking about it afterwards, his game probably summed up why loans are necessary. If you are at the level where you are going to be loaned out to the Championship or above, then you have probably been pretty much a rising star in the Academy. That means you can afford to have a wayward game or play some poor passes and staff may criticise but still see the potential of your positive moments.

On loan, this is real life. When you give the ball away on attack, that's your team-mates who have busted a gut to run up the field with you to try to get an equaliser which will stop the thousands of fans getting on their back and the manager decide to shake up the team. And it's real life for you now as well. No longer all about potential, it's about whether you get the chance at Everton or end up at Colwyn Bay thinking about what might have been.

On balance, I think Joe Williams possibly needs to stop the Academy 'style' where you are trying to do the right things and start playing professional percentage football (i.e. get rid rather than doing a Stones near your own box).

The other factor in Williams case is that he suffered a bad injury and was out for a long time, only coming back towards the end of last season. That takes a while to get over so I think he's going to need a good few months to get up to a decent level. The one thing you can never fault Williams on is his attitude & desire. If he keeps playing for Barnsley I think he'll really come on.

 

[atrottel]

...be interesting how he settles. Let's not forget, he's played little or no football for the past 12 months or so and even then it was within his age group. He really is thrown in at the deep end here, he seems to have a bit of attitude about him so he might just come through this.

I hope so. One of the reasons I watched the match was that Williams has always been an 'underdog' favourite youth player of mine, never really getting the praise of some of the better known Academy products but always seeming to put a shift in and doing the necessary dirty work.

Added:

The other factor in Williams case is that he suffered a bad injury and was out for a long time, only coming back towards the end of last season. That takes a while to get over so I think he's going to need a good few months to get up to a decent level. The one thing you can never fault Williams on is his attitude & desire. If he keeps playing for Barnsley I think he'll really come on.

I'm not sure with Barnsley this season. Apparently they sold off a lot of their decent players and slumped after January. They did look a poor side and their fans say that even with his up-and-down performances Williams has been carrying the rest of the midfield. Although they did have a decent result against Forest...

 

[jceverton]

...be interesting how he settles. Let's not forget, he's played little or no football for the past 12 months or so and even then it was within his age group. He really is thrown in at the deep end here, he seems to have a bit of attitude about him so he might just come through this.

Didn't see your comment before I posted mine. We are obviously on the same wavelength regarding Williams! He's improved a great deal over last few years and Unsworth commented on his great attitude on a few occasions.

 

[jceverton]

I hope so. One of the reasons I watched the match was that Williams has always been an 'underdog' favourite youth player of mine, never really getting the praise of some of the better known Academy products but always seeming to put a shift in and doing the necessary dirty work.

One of the things that surprised me over the last couple of years was the improvement in his passing. He started to really play some incisive long range passes. Obviously not quite got that going yet at Barnsley!

 

[jceverton]

I hope so. One of the reasons I watched the match was that Williams has always been an 'underdog' favourite youth player of mine, never really getting the praise of some of the better known Academy products but always seeming to put a shift in and doing the necessary dirty work.

Added:

I'm not sure with Barnsley this season. Apparently they sold off a lot of their decent players and slumped after January. They did look a poor side and their fans say that even with his up-and-down performances Williams has been carrying the rest of the midfield. Although they did have a decent result against Forest...

Maybe they should take Walsh on loan as well, be interesting to see the pair of them at this level. Just playing and competing at this level, even in a poor side, will be beneficial in Williams case but it would be better if he had a good old head alongside him.

 

[blueloon]

Personal view - I watched much of the Barnsley game as I hadn't seen Joe Williams in action this season yet and Barnsley were an attractive footballing side last season.

I thought he put in a poor performance in a very poor side, who were second-best all over the pitch. In defence, on occasion he would dive in and miss a tackle, resulting in a hole behind him while on attack his distribution was surprisingly inaccurate (if I remember rightly, he had a stretch of breaking down three attacks by passing to the opposition). On a positive side, even though he was having a bit of a nightmare he was still looking for the ball and happy to show for the pass.

Thinking about it afterwards, his game probably summed up why loans are necessary. If you are at the level where you are going to be loaned out to the Championship or above, then you have probably been pretty much a rising star in the Academy. That means you can afford to have a wayward game or play some poor passes and staff may criticise but still see the potential of your positive moments.

On loan, this is real life. When you give the ball away on attack, that's your team-mates who have busted a gut to run up the field with you to try to get an equaliser which will stop the thousands of fans getting on their back and the manager decide to shake up the team. And it's real life for you now as well. No longer all about potential, it's about whether you get the chance at Everton or end up at Colwyn Bay thinking about what might have been.

On balance, I think Joe Williams possibly needs to stop the Academy 'style' where you are trying to do the right things and start playing professional percentage football (i.e. get rid rather than doing a Stones near your own box).

I saw the highlights from the Barnsley game, noted they had him as the single defensive midfielder in front of the back four and that was how it looked on tv. Not easy being the person playing that role , and find see him do much. He didn't appear as dynamic as when playing for the U23s , more conservative jogs back and forard - style was more Ryan Ledson than a Davies or Walsh if that makes sense.