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Appeal for witnesses...

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chicoazul said:
Aye fair. Easy to separate the two though isn’t it, the timing of the leak being nefarious to smear fans but being concerned a female has been allegedly assaulted.
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If she has been assaulted, she can put out that information when she likes as far as I'm concerned.

And I am normally uncritically accepting of such allegations. But in this instance, I am unconvinced. It's a very specific and serious accusation, one which Merseyside police are unaware of, that needs to be substantiated.

It is also worth noting, that a similar alleged incident happened around Everton Free School. Where a member of (what was) my union (NUT) was accused of abusing DBB and her secretary. It was later found by CCTV and witness evidence this did not happen, and the club apologised to the individual.

The chairman has lied a lot, so I cant take his word it I'm afraid. The club need to make a clear statement, either providing the evidence for a serious accusation, and assuring us all the person in question has been banned, or clear the record on what has happened.

However this Kafkaesque approach, whereby the fanbase is on trial for an as yet unsubstantiated offence, where 0 evidence has been provided is wholly out of line.
 
Old Blue 2 said:
Spot on. There is a legal tenet: He who asserts must prove.

We await the proof.

There are certain things concerning the alleged episode that just do not add up (in support of what you are saying, catcher):
1 Why wasn't the incident reported immediately to the Police, as this would appear to be a prima facie case of assault?; Is there an actual crime report with the Police? If so, when was it lodged?
2 Why didn't the person assaulted cry out for witnesses?
3 Question: was she alone? If not, what have ALL of the witnesses done in the intervening period? Nothing? I very much doubt that she would be alone in the main stand, if that is where the alleged assault took place.
4 Why wait from Tuesday 3rd January (the night of the Brighton game) until just before the Southampton game to announce the incident?
5 Given that it has been stated elsewhere on here by other members that the ground is covered by CCTV, where is the CCTV video evidence to back up the claim of assault?

Given that one of my duties when I was in work was criminal investigative work, the above 5 points come immediately to mind. They have to be the initial basis for any investigation. Also, the basic ground rules of investigation, ABC. Accept nothing; Believe no one; Check everything. You start with an open mind and a blank page. Has the club done that? I don't believe it has.

At present, (and this is only my conjecture) it appears that the allegation of assault only came out once it had been announced that protests against the board would be made at the Southampton game. An adjunct to my previous paragraph is that there is a logical pattern/path to everything - nothing is illogical. The protest announcement, the claim of alleged assault, the 'security' advice to the Board members not to attend, the empty seats in the Directors box, there is the logical path, friends...
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All very good points mate.

And you are correct, it is on the person making the assertion to provide proof, not me.

@Charlie Sweet clearly said it happened. So it's on him to substantiate that.
 
Charlie Sweet said:
I'm not defending the board and their crap footballing decisions. I'm just saying from a business perspective I can easily understand how they'd want to downplay it. They clearly haven't been doing their jobs properly let alone keeping a good relationship with their stakeholders.
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So if they want to downplay it, why have it leaked? And if it was leaked withourt their knowledge, why not come out and downplay it?

The reality is, they wanted to make a big thing of it, and released it just before kick off of a huge home game for maximum exposure. What they now do not want, is any scrutiny on the incident.

It doesnt work like that. It's a very specific, and damaging accusation. People are going to be concerned, and are going to want to know what has happened, why it was allowed to happen, and what steps have been taken to deal with the alleged offender. We just want the truth.
 

JLW said:
I’m not convinced it’s come from the club, it’s the whole ‘headlock’ supposed quote, it would have said physical assault. Think the leak is bollocks and obviously the incident.
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I'm almost certain it will have come from the club, it said a club source. But if it didnt, and it's not true, they could easily come out and clarify.

In all likelihood, the press would have contacted them to establish credibility, with which they would either say yes or no.
 
catcherintherye said:
If she has been assaulted, she can put out that information when she likes as far as I'm concerned.

And I am normally uncritically accepting of such allegations. But in this instance, I am unconvinced. It's a very specific and serious accusation, one which Merseyside police are unaware of, that needs to be substantiated.

It is also worth noting, that a similar alleged incident happened around Everton Free School. Where a member of (what was) my union (NUT) was accused of abusing DBB and her secretary. It was later found by CCTV and witness evidence this did not happen, and the club apologised to the individual.

The chairman has lied a lot, so I cant take his word it I'm afraid. The club need to make a clear statement, either providing the evidence for a serious accusation, and assuring us all the person in question has been banned, or clear the record on what has happened.

However this Kafkaesque approach, whereby the fanbase is on trial for an as yet unsubstantiated offence, where 0 evidence has been provided is wholly out of line.
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Down to the alleged victim really mate. It’s likely she didn’t want any attention brought to it hence it not getting out until it’s leaked.

Sure we as fans might feel a little pissed off at the timing and the media saying bad stuff about our fans because of it it, but that’s not true so sack them and I’d rather be called a bad fan than be a female who was assaulted in any way.
 
catcherintherye said:
So if they want to downplay it, why have it leaked? And if it was leaked withourt their knowledge, why not come out and downplay it?

The reality is, they wanted to make a big thing of it, and released it just before kick off of a huge home game for maximum exposure. What they now do not want, is any scrutiny on the incident.

It doesnt work like that. It's a very specific, and damaging accusation. People are going to be concerned, and are going to want to know what has happened, why it was allowed to happen, and what steps have been taken to deal with the alleged offender. We just want the truth.
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They can’t come out to prove how great a job they are doing so they go down this route. Playing on people’s emotions and morality .
 
JLW said:
I’m not convinced it’s come from the club, it’s the whole ‘headlock’ supposed quote, it would have said physical assault. Think the leak is bollocks and obviously the incident.
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The club need to clarify it then. If the press are releasing false allegations that further damage and already deeply fractured relationship, at a time that looks intended to cause the most volatility, then it needs quashing asap. At the moment, a CEO and a fanbase are being put through the ringer off a journalist's "understanding" from an unnamed source.
 

chicoazul said:
Down to the alleged victim really mate. It’s likely she didn’t want any attention brought to it hence it not getting out until it’s leaked.

Sure we as fans might feel a little pissed off at the timing and the media saying bad stuff about our fans because of it it, but that’s not true so sack them and I’d rather be called a bad fan than be a female who was assaulted in any way.
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Not just the leak though is it, the leak which landed with favourable journalists moments after the scheduled 12 statement just give the detail.

The club statement;

The Board members received the instruction following malicious and unacceptably threatening correspondence received by the Club and increasing incidents of anti-social behaviour – including targeted physical aggression - at recent home matches.
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I'm sure the club will clarify the situation today - fans will want to know how the club are dealing with assault at Goodison.
 
chicoazul said:
Down to the alleged victim really mate. It’s likely she didn’t want any attention brought to it hence it not getting out until it’s leaked.

Sure we as fans might feel a little pissed off at the timing and the media saying bad stuff about our fans because of it it, but that’s not true so sack them and I’d rather be called a bad fan than be a female who was assaulted in any way.
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Well I would too, but it's not an either/or.

There is a fundamental attempt going on in this country to deligitimise peoples right to protest.

It's a very serious accusation, and one that needs to be substantiated. I'm happy to be called a bad fan for things I've done, and I'm happy to condemn other fans for things they do. But nobody should be getting dragged over the coals for things that havent happened.

There is a culture of football supporters being smeared with lies. We can oppose that and oppose violence against women. But we need this alleged assault to be substantiated in order to do this.
 

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