Back to a David Moyes team

[Famous_Seamus]

Agree with this.

GK -- Potentially the best weve had since Martyn and could be even better. Top signing
RB -- Need Coleman back as he was before and Kenny to show this season he can compete with Coleman,
RCB -- Keane is a great solid signing. Holgate is hopefully going to improve and compete/rotate with Keane.
LCB -- Williams and Jagielka...liability. Any forward will focus here as a weak link
LB -- Baines on his last legs. Really hope Connolly can step up.

For me, Holgate next to Keane isn't good as both are right sided. Id like Holgate coming in for Kenny at RB sometimes or covering and rotating with Keane.

I think we need a VVD level player not only to compete with the top 4 but to show other stars we are going for it.

I strongly think we need to sort the defence out. What happens if Baines and Williams both do a Distin or Keane is injured.

Obviously injuries are always a concern but I would charge you with naming 4 better LBs currently in English football than Baines. Yes he may be nearing his last years but I still feel he's a top class player and many are writing him off too early, lets see what he does with a fresh crop of attacking options to work with.

Also I disagree on Stones, he was just as prone to the bone-head play as Williams or Jagielka are. Of course he's much younger and thus has more potential but I honestly don't see a major downgrade in quality at least in the immediate sense. Obviously again, like Baines, Williams and Jags are not part of the long term plans and we do need to have better cover for the position and eventual successor.

 

[jinkyali]

Personally think he wont last till after Jan. Or be used very sparingly.



Great opportunity for us to sign a star centre back and a star forward. Star quality to add to the solid foundations. I don't see Sigurdsson for 50mil to be in that bracket.




Brilliant article...as usual.



Isnt it time for us to add the X-factor players now? Our name is in lights due to rooney and the other signings? Give it a year and if were 6th or 7th we don't have as much gravitas as we do now...



Id say forward and defence. If we had 2 players come in with that star quality even young lads who can grow with the team then at least its something on top of the solid side we seem to have now, Moyes used to say he lacked an X factor player...seems the same to me.



Big name to replace a big player.



A centre back too I hope!




Spot on really. Stable signings who we can rely on for 7/10 performances each game....but whose getting the fans jumping?

So how do you equate us being a more workman like team, yet were massively successful at scoring last season? It doesnt add up.

 

[PeregrineT]

Whine, whine whine. Whatever delusional view you had of John Stones, most of us did not. We saw him for what he was, an overpriced, flashy, turnover machine. Michael Keane is already a better player.

But you are right, nothing says cheap Ashley Williams signing like splashing 50 million on a midfielder.

 

[Zatara]

Would say Rooney, Keane and Pickford are more star signings than if we got Dolberg etc.

Rooney due to the name. Hes looked finished for ages.

Pickford and Keane can become big name internationals but aren't the X-factor types to bang down doors.

Obviously injuries are always a concern but I would charge you with naming 4 better LBs currently in English football than Baines. Yes he may be nearing his last years but I still feel he's a top class player and many are writing him off too early, lets see what he does with a fresh crop of attacking options to work with.

Also I disagree on Stones, he was just as prone to the bone-head play as Williams or Jagielka are. Of course he's much younger and thus has more potential but I honestly don't see a major downgrade in quality at least in the immediate sense. Obviously again, like Baines, Williams and Jags are not part of the long term plans and we do need to have better cover for the position and eventual successor.

Regarding Baines, its not about 'whose the best left back' but more about 'can he play 2 games a week' and 'can he keep consistency' and also 'if he gets injured can Connolly step up'.

Williams is 33 next month, Baines is 33 in December. At some point you need to look at them and go up a level if were serious about top 4.

So how do you equate us being a more workman like team, yet were massively successful at scoring last season? It doesnt add up.

Our two top scorers Barkley and Lukaku are going, going, going, gone!

Last season our centre mids sat so far back to protect our defence. cant see that changing with Williams/Baines back there.

Will need to see how are forwards do this season but its not awe inspiring, more hard working.

 

[jinkyali]

Rooney due to the name. Hes looked finished for ages.

Pickford and Keane can become big name internationals but aren't the X-factor types to bang down doors.



Regarding Baines, its not about 'whose the best left back' but more about 'can he play 2 games a week' and 'can he keep consistency' and also 'if he gets injured can Connolly step up'.

Williams is 33 next month, Baines is 33 in December. At some point you need to look at them and go up a level if were serious about top 4.




Our two top scorers Barkley and Lukaku are going, going, going, gone!

Last season our centre mids sat so far back to protect our defence. cant see that changing with Williams/Baines back there.

Will need to see how are forwards do this season but its not awe inspiring, more hard working.

You do know that we are replacing our top scorers with others dont you?

The team is being designed differently to last year. Football is a fluid game and your just putting names in to other names.

We will be fine, relax.

 

[Zatara]

You do know that we are replacing our top scorers with others dont you?

The team is being designed differently to last year. Football is a fluid game and your just putting names in to other names.

We will be fine, relax.

I see Williams, Jags and Baines a year older...

In the forward slots I know who I would choose and I think they would be effective but my point is that its a solid team. There appear to not be any stars.

 

[jinkyali]

I see Williams, Jags and Baines a year older...

In the forward slots I know who I would choose and I think they would be effective but my point is that its a solid team. There appear to not be any stars.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with being a solid team.

UTD won two trophies by being solid.
Chelsea won the league by being solid. As did Leicester.
Liverpool/Arsenal continually fail due to not being solid.

 

[EFC78]

I'm feeling quite miserable after seeing Ronald Koeman effectively tell us that Barkley is going. The fourth player classed not long ago as one of our jewels along with Stones, Lukaku and Deulofeu.

John Stones was classed by an enormous amount of people as a potentially 'world class' player and recognised as one of the jewels in our team. Sure, we can look at a variety of negatives and also the large transfer fee but in the end we lost Stones to Man City and arguably the top manager around.

Are we becoming another 'David Moyes' side with a team aiming to be greater than the sum of its parts? Have we recycled the squad players and our 'jewels' to go back to a workmanlike Moyes style team?

Other than Leicester I don't think this approach has worked for anyone so I hope any new signings surprise us in a good way and they and the u21s provide the 'star' quality we seem to be missing to break into the top 4.

Re the 'Jewels', they simply weren't. The only one who proved his quality consistently over a full season was Lukaku who was regularly among the league's top scorers. Stones, whilst talented, is no where near the finished article. For a defender, he seems to struggle with the actual defending aspect. Losing concentration on set pieces, getting beaten in the air, backing off the attackers allowing them to shoot. Then there are his weaknesses on the ball - needlessly giving away possession, taking risks in dangerous areas etc. Those things don't seem to have improved a great deal at Man City either.

On to your second point, you mentioned Leicester but fail to mention Moyes' Everton side that finished 4th with Marcus Bent, Lee Carsley and Tony Hibbert in the side? For all Moyes' criticisms he made us in to a regular 5th-7th placed side, got us our highest league finish for 30 years in 04-05 and did it all with far less resources than what Martinez and now Koeman have.

 

[Zatara]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with being a solid team.

UTD won two trophies by being solid.
Chelsea won the league by being solid. As did Leicester.
Liverpool/Arsenal continually fail due to not being solid.

Each of those teams have/had a superstar player...

United had stars for decades....even star defenders....
Chelsea have Hazard and others
Liverpool got close due to Suarez
Arsenal had Henry and Vieira and more

We have TOP solid players which you need to win titles and cups. We just don't have the X-factor

 

[Zatara]

Re the 'Jewels', they simply weren't. The only one who proved his quality consistently over a full season was Lukaku who was regularly among the league's top scorers. Stones, whilst talented, is no where near the finished article. For a defender, he seems to struggle with the actual defending aspect. Losing concentration on set pieces, getting beaten in the air, backing off the attackers allowing them to shoot. Then there are his weaknesses on the ball - needlessly giving away possession, taking risks in dangerous areas etc. Those things don't seem to have improved a great deal at Man City either.

On to your second point, you mentioned Leicester but fail to mention Moyes' Everton side that finished 4th with Marcus Bent, Lee Carsley and Tony Hibbert in the side? For all Moyes' criticisms he made us in to a regular 5th-7th placed side, got us our highest league finish for 30 years in 04-05 and did it all with far less resources than what Martinez and now Koeman have.

On the first paragraph, it was my intention to show that we believed and hoped these 4 'jewels' would become our superstars. All have gone and been replaced with solid players...but no 'star' quality.

About Moyes sides, I'm referring to the squad we have now as bar a past-it Rooney none are big names just like under Moyes and it seems Koeman wants us to press a lot and work hard....no X-factor in the squad...

 

[jinkyali]

Each of those teams have/had a superstar player...

United had stars for decades....even star defenders....
Chelsea have Hazard and others
Liverpool got close due to Suarez
Arsenal had Henry and Vieira and more

We have TOP solid players which you need to win titles and cups. We just don't have the X-factor

Ok. Everton going to win nothing because Zatara says none of the players (some of which havent even made an apperance for the club) dont have the X Factor.

How about the likes of Rom/Geri/Ross - there supposed X factor then? Got us no nearer to winning a trophy than supposed workhorses. In fact, Rom blew the best chance we had for 20 years at winning a trophy by bottling a semi final completely, including a missing penalty.

 

[Zatara]

Ok. Everton going to win nothing because Zatara says none of the players (some of which havent even made an apperance for the club) dont have the X Factor.

How about the likes of Rom/Geri/Ross - there supposed X factor then? Got us no nearer to winning a trophy than supposed workhorses. In fact, Rom blew the best chance we had for 20 years at winning a trophy by bottling a semi final completely, including a missing penalty.

We needed to add the players we have now to those 4 players. Wed then have the solid squad + some X-factor players.

Instead weve sold the jewels and got the solid players.

Why haven't we replaced them with more stars?

lol and why would I need to see Cuco Martina play for us when ive seen how useless he is....likewise I know Pickford is class

 

[jinkyali]

We needed to add the players we have now to those 4 players. Wed then have the solid squad + some X-factor players.

Instead weve sold the jewels and got the solid players.

Why haven't we replaced them with more stars?

lol and why would I need to see Cuco Martina play for us when ive seen how useless he is....likewise I know Pickford is class

Stones wanted to leave..as did Rom. Ross does too. Geri had a buy back.
Do you expect us to handcuff them to the training ground?

They are no way superstars. Young players who had potential. Some of it fulfilled. Most of it not.

 

[ilikecheese]

Stones wanted to leave..as did Rom. Ross does too. Geri had a buy back.
Do you expect us to handcuff them to the training ground?

They are no way superstars. Young players who had potential. Some of it fulfilled. Most of it not.

Let's also not forget that Del wasn't a good PL player.

 

[The Rhino]

Obviously injuries are always a concern but I would charge you with naming 4 better LBs currently in English football than Baines. Yes he may be nearing his last years but I still feel he's a top class player and many are writing him off too early, lets see what he does with a fresh crop of attacking options to work with.

Also I disagree on Stones, he was just as prone to the bone-head play as Williams or Jagielka are. Of course he's much younger and thus has more potential but I honestly don't see a major downgrade in quality at least in the immediate sense. Obviously again, like Baines, Williams and Jags are not part of the long term plans and we do need to have better cover for the position and eventual successor.

Baines is past it man