Back to a David Moyes team

[Tennessee Blue Mike]

Sad fact is three of the four mentioned wanted a change of scenery. I wish them all the best but glad they have moved on as it meant or will be in Barkley's case a lot of mucho denaro. If they didn't want to stay don't let the door hit you on the way out. We are in the now if a 30 year old can bring it so be it. I think we will be better prepared fitness wise let see how this squad gets on together.

 

[formerly manx toffee]

It's just the same thing for 12months now...we think someone may go but hope its not true...then theyre gone.
We replace them with semi-sensible or sensible signings

And repeat

I'm excited to see the kids develop...im chuffed with a couple of the signings weve made...but wheres the star names joining?

I think at this point we are not a draw for star names. 7th placed perennially. We need to build. I have said before that we need 3 seasons or so to say we are in the top group.

Also let's not forget that we signed Morgan and Gana. The team is building

 

[witchdoc187]

I'm feeling quite miserable after seeing Ronald Koeman effectively tell us that Barkley is going. The fourth player classed not long ago as one of our jewels along with Stones, Lukaku and Deulofeu.

John Stones was classed by an enormous amount of people as a potentially 'world class' player and recognised as one of the jewels in our team. Sure, we can look at a variety of negatives and also the large transfer fee but in the end we lost Stones to Man City and arguably the top manager around.

The recent bids for Swansea midfielder Gylfi Sigurdsson are eerily similar to 12 months ago when we signed a 31 year old Ashley Williams to replace Stones. He had performed well for Swansea and also internationally for Wales and most people thought he would make a good stop-gap and perhaps a mentor for a truly top foreign defender last summer (who we of course never signed).

Fast forward until today and we have signed Englands long term keeper in Jordan Pickford and a man mountain and England international Michael Keane. It seems to me that the ideal partner to Keane on paper would have been John Stones.

Everton would then have, three long term English internationals and would be able to maximise on this not only on the pitch but through marketing and exposure to show young English players what they can achieve. The global marketing into Asia and other regions would be very lucrative also.

Instead of this we lost our 'jewel' and have Ashley Williams (who will turn 33 in August) and haven't brought in any 'star' centre back or any 'potential' John Stones type star.


Back to Sigurdsson, he's a great player. When he was at Reading he was always in the media and also at Swansea he's always been their top player. He'd have been a great signing for us to play with Barkley and Rooney all linking up and getting the ball to Lukaku. However, we've lost Lukaku and we're going to lose Barkley. So instead of imagining something which looks interesting on paper, we instead have the prospect of spending 50mil on a transfer fee and probably something similar on wages/bonuses for someone whose not even close to a 'Star' player or 'Potential' star player. Looks like another short-term signing to me.

A lot of people have been clamouring for Giroud. This is another Ashley Williams, he could be solid for a season, maybe even for two seasons when he turns 33. Is Giroud a 'star' player like Lukaku or a 'potential world class player...nope. So why sign him?

I'm just wondering if, as an Evertonian, I should in some way be excited by the reality of losing 4 'jewels' and replacing them with short term stopgaps Williams, Sigurdsson, Rooney and perhaps Giroud.


Looking at our squad, if we discount both the young players and the more experienced players and solely focus on the age group from 22- 29 who do we have without any 'ifs' or 'buts' about them this season and in the mid-long term?

Pickford -- Potentially the long term Everton and England number 1.
Keane -- Man Mountain and looks a solid defender who should also be a rock for England
Schneiderlin -- Our Sami Khedira who keeps us ticking along
Gana -- Energetic tackling machine

These are all top 'supporting cast' members and with Bolasie and Coleman (unknown recoveries) as well as the adaptation of Klaassen and Sandro we seen to have a collection of 'supporting cast members' and no 'stars'.

Are we becoming another 'David Moyes' side with a team aiming to be greater than the sum of its parts?

Have we recycled the squad players and our 'jewels' to go back to a workmanlike Moyes style team?

I suggest that the next few signings will show us if we're going for 'stars', potential 'stars' or players to fit into a particular system.

Other than Leicester I don't think this approach has worked for anyone so I hope any new signings surprise us in a good way and they and the u21s provide the 'star' quality we seem to be missing to break into the top 4.

Koeman has an excellent season last season. Barkley has stagnated, stones is error prone, we'll finish 7th regardless. Sigurdsson is not really short term is he. Can't you just enjoy like ffs

 

[ilikecheese]

Not that I'm agreeing with Zat but quite a few people on here saying the likes of Stones is over rated and Del is useless, are the same ones who said Stones will be the future England captain and worried a few seasons about Del being bought back.

Fast forward a few seasons and you have all turned. Just like when Martinez came in he was the new hero and much better than Moyes.

Remember this, you will all turn on Koeman in the end.

I am turning on young Pickford as soon as he allows a goal.

I will, however, blindly support Gylfi to the hilt.

 

[Dutch Toffee]

@Zatara

Again do it by tagging you, as I can't be bothered sorting out that multi quote mess on my mobile. Where's the cutting edge you're asking? Well, where was the cutting edge when 'the 4 crown juwels' were still playing for us? All of them talking how they wanted CL football and were ready for that level, but none of them leadus there. Barkley a crown juwel? More like a mentally very fragile player who thinks he deserves more than he gets at the moment. A boyhood blue that wants to leave his club because he doesn't fancy a fight for his place in the team.

Rooney might be on his last legs, but at least those are legs that have already proven it. The legs of a winner not a bottler.

As for the real cutting edge, I don't know, maybe we'll have to wait a little bit longer before we can add that to our squad. For now stock up a squad with proven PL players (Schneiderlin, Coleman, Sigurdsson, Rooney), young and hungry players with a point to prove (Klaasen, Keane, Pickford, Sandro) and some of the best young talent England has to offer (Davies, Dowell, Kenny, Lookman). I for one like the look of our new team. As said we'll miss the Lukaku goals, sure as hell won't miss Lukaku's sulking.

Personally don't think we'll break into the top 6 this season, but the bricks are most definitely laid to build a very exciting future on. Personally I'm 100% convinced of that.

 

[MikeH72]

Haven't even read any of it but what an absolute nuclear holocaust of a thread.

 

[Bob Latchford]

If you were going to strengthen one area of the side with 50mil what would you use it on?

Personally id go for a superstar defender...cheaper, huge name to attract other players and massively improves our defence.

Just out of interest, and given City have bought 3-4 defenders for around that price, who would tick the boxes of
Superstar defender
Cheaper than 50m
Massively improves def
Attracts other players

 

[Zatara]

Lot more being posted but of what you saying I align most to this. Lukaku leaving does leave a gaping hole now that Maybe Rooney/Sandro can fill.

But the most pressing issue coming out of last season was the need for a new CB pairing. Unlike many who have jumped on the bandwagon I thought and still think Stones is an excellent player and will become the main CB for England for years to come. If he doesn't the system needs to look at itself. He was brilliant at 19 and that level of class does not get worse, it might get lost in a system that can't grow and nurture it or tries to change it.

Saying that will we go for a whole new pairing this year, I doubt it. They will want to bed in Keane first, with williams and give Holgate another year to develop. It might be that Holgate and Keane are the future. If so that is awesome! To break top 4 this year we would need to pair Keane with a VVD level player. Keane alone is not a glamorous signing, let's be fair none of them are apart from Rooney, but he might be very astute.. which is how I rate all of them.

Agree with this.

GK -- Potentially the best weve had since Martyn and could be even better. Top signing
RB -- Need Coleman back as he was before and Kenny to show this season he can compete with Coleman,
RCB -- Keane is a great solid signing. Holgate is hopefully going to improve and compete/rotate with Keane.
LCB -- Williams and Jagielka...liability. Any forward will focus here as a weak link
LB -- Baines on his last legs. Really hope Connolly can step up.

For me, Holgate next to Keane isn't good as both are right sided. Id like Holgate coming in for Kenny at RB sometimes or covering and rotating with Keane.

I think we need a VVD level player not only to compete with the top 4 but to show other stars we are going for it.

I strongly think we need to sort the defence out. What happens if Baines and Williams both do a Distin or Keane is injured.

 

[formerly manx toffee]

Agree with this.

GK -- Potentially the best weve had since Martyn and could be even better. Top signing
RB -- Need Coleman back as he was before and Kenny to show this season he can compete with Coleman,
RCB -- Keane is a great solid signing. Holgate is hopefully going to improve and compete/rotate with Keane.
LCB -- Williams and Jagielka...liability. Any forward will focus here as a weak link
LB -- Baines on his last legs. Really hope Connolly can step up.

For me, Holgate next to Keane isn't good as both are right sided. Id like Holgate coming in for Kenny at RB sometimes or covering and rotating with Keane.

I think we need a VVD level player not only to compete with the top 4 but to show other stars we are going for it.

I strongly think we need to sort the defence out. What happens if Baines and Williams both do a Distin or Keane is injured.

See. I told you I agreed with you more than most. VVD is the answer.

 

[MikeH72]

We're going back to regular top 6 finishes? Get in!

 

[Zatara]

I think at this point we are not a draw for star names. 7th placed perennially. We need to build. I have said before that we need 3 seasons or so to say we are in the top group.

Also let's not forget that we signed Morgan and Gana. The team is building

I posted the same thing to others....our stock is high at the moment across Europe...rooney signed and a few players in

if we wait a season we lose that impetus.

Koeman has an excellent season last season. Barkley has stagnated, stones is error prone, we'll finish 7th regardless. Sigurdsson is not really short term is he. Can't you just enjoy like ffs

The magnificent 7th.

@Zatara

Again do it by tagging you, as I can't be bothered sorting out that multi quote mess on my mobile. Where's the cutting edge you're asking? Well, where was the cutting edge when 'the 4 crown juwels' were still playing for us? All of them talking how they wanted CL football and were ready for that level, but none of them leadus there. Barkley a crown juwel? More like a mentally very fragile player who thinks he deserves more than he gets at the moment. A boyhood blue that wants to leave his club because he doesn't fancy a fight for his place in the team.

Rooney might be on his last legs, but at least those are legs that have already proven it. The legs of a winner not a bottler.

As for the real cutting edge, I don't know, maybe we'll have to wait a little bit longer before we can add that to our squad. For now stock up a squad with proven PL players (Schneiderlin, Coleman, Sigurdsson, Rooney), young and hungry players with a point to prove (Klaasen, Keane, Pickford, Sandro) and some of the best young talent England has to offer (Davies, Dowell, Kenny, Lookman). I for one like the look of our new team. As said we'll miss the Lukaku goals, sure as hell won't miss Lukaku's sulking.

Personally don't think we'll break into the top 6 this season, but the bricks are most definitely laid to build a very exciting future on. Personally I'm 100% convinced of that.

Its a good mix. Lookman and the kids look good and exciting.

What I'm saying though, is we had 4 'jewels' weve replaced them with solid players.

Who has Koeman signed whose clearly his star signing?

Is it Sigurdsson for 50mil? Pretty sensible signing again....

 

[Nymzee]

I posted the same thing to others....our stock is high at the moment across Europe...rooney signed and a few players in

if we wait a season we lose that impetus.




The magnificent 7th.



Its a good mix. Lookman and the kids look good and exciting.

What I'm saying though, is we had 4 'jewels' weve replaced them with solid players.

Who has Koeman signed whose clearly his star signing?

Is it Sigurdsson for 50mil? Pretty sensible signing again....

Would say Rooney, Keane and Pickford are more star signings than if we got Dolberg etc.

 

[ilikecheese]

Is Davies not a 'jewel'? Holgate? Lookman? Sandro?

 

[Nymzee]

Is Davies not a 'jewel'? Holgate? Lookman? Sandro?

Nah most are English.

 

[MikeH72]

Is Davies not a 'jewel'? Holgate? Lookman? Sandro?

*coughs loudly* PICKFORD