Back to a David Moyes team

[Zatara]

I think Rooney will have a great season. I wouldn't be at all surprised if he outscored Lukaku........vault me.....

Personally think he wont last till after Jan. Or be used very sparingly.

One thing I will agree with @Zatara on is that we lack matchwinners in the squad. We could do with one attacking player with a bit of star quality coming in now that we´ve sold Lukaku. Team looks a bit too "steady Eddy" for my liking atm. A Dele Ali, Couthino or Hazard of our own.

Great opportunity for us to sign a star centre back and a star forward. Star quality to add to the solid foundations. I don't see Sigurdsson for 50mil to be in that bracket.

Now would also seem an apt opportunity to revisit this by @catcherintherye

https://www.grandoldteam.com/2017/07/06/the-fab-4/

Brilliant article...as usual.

Agreed but it's all about progression, maybe next summer if we fluke a trophy or fourth we can look to get those type of players. The foundations seem a bit better at least, so the next additions should start to have the X factor about them.

Isnt it time for us to add the X-factor players now? Our name is in lights due to rooney and the other signings? Give it a year and if were 6th or 7th we don't have as much gravitas as we do now...

Moyes made a pretty good team out of not much money. That team got old and needed replacing, but Martinez didn't really have much money either so relied on young players and Wigan, which worked for a while then went tits up. Then Koeman came in and patched up the failing Martinez team, and now he's been given the money to make a new team, similar to what Moyes did in 2007.

In that sense I think Zat is about right to be honest. We're still lacking that real quality in the forward positions that all the top teams have.

Id say forward and defence. If we had 2 players come in with that star quality even young lads who can grow with the team then at least its something on top of the solid side we seem to have now, Moyes used to say he lacked an X factor player...seems the same to me.

Didn't we score more goals last year than in many years?
Rooney is a huge name

Big name to replace a big player.

He is right we need a touch of class up front , and possibly a silky midfielder to go up a level.
Hopefully that will come.

A centre back too I hope!

I've said from the start that Koeman is Dutch Moyes. Not a bad thing, I was a huge admirer of the work Moyes did for us.

You give him an unlimited budget and the rights to sign whoever he likes and he gets some defensive midfielders, some experienced defenders and big, strong attackers.

He phases out players he can't trust to play in his way and has a very fixed idea of what he wants his players to do.

Personally I want more from a manager given the backing he is getting, time will tell.

Spot on really. Stable signings who we can rely on for 7/10 performances each game....but whose getting the fans jumping?

 

[canuckblue]

I would think we've traded in our knives for something much better....

 

[davek]

I'm feeling quite miserable after seeing Ronald Koeman effectively tell us that Barkley is going. The fourth player classed not long ago as one of our jewels along with Stones, Lukaku and Deulofeu.

John Stones was classed by an enormous amount of people as a potentially 'world class' player and recognised as one of the jewels in our team. Sure, we can look at a variety of negatives and also the large transfer fee but in the end we lost Stones to Man City and arguably the top manager around.

The recent bids for Swansea midfielder Gylfi Sigurdsson are eerily similar to 12 months ago when we signed a 31 year old Ashley Williams to replace Stones. He had performed well for Swansea and also internationally for Wales and most people thought he would make a good stop-gap and perhaps a mentor for a truly top foreign defender last summer (who we of course never signed).

Fast forward until today and we have signed Englands long term keeper in Jordan Pickford and a man mountain and England international Michael Keane. It seems to me that the ideal partner to Keane on paper would have been John Stones.

Everton would then have, three long term English internationals and would be able to maximise on this not only on the pitch but through marketing and exposure to show young English players what they can achieve. The global marketing into Asia and other regions would be very lucrative also.

Instead of this we lost our 'jewel' and have Ashley Williams (who will turn 33 in August) and haven't brought in any 'star' centre back or any 'potential' John Stones type star.


Back to Sigurdsson, he's a great player. When he was at Reading he was always in the media and also at Swansea he's always been their top player. He'd have been a great signing for us to play with Barkley and Rooney all linking up and getting the ball to Lukaku. However, we've lost Lukaku and we're going to lose Barkley. So instead of imagining something which looks interesting on paper, we instead have the prospect of spending 50mil on a transfer fee and probably something similar on wages/bonuses for someone whose not even close to a 'Star' player or 'Potential' star player. Looks like another short-term signing to me.

A lot of people have been clamouring for Giroud. This is another Ashley Williams, he could be solid for a season, maybe even for two seasons when he turns 33. Is Giroud a 'star' player like Lukaku or a 'potential world class player...nope. So why sign him?

I'm just wondering if, as an Evertonian, I should in some way be excited by the reality of losing 4 'jewels' and replacing them with short term stopgaps Williams, Sigurdsson, Rooney and perhaps Giroud.


Looking at our squad, if we discount both the young players and the more experienced players and solely focus on the age group from 22- 29 who do we have without any 'ifs' or 'buts' about them this season and in the mid-long term?

Pickford -- Potentially the long term Everton and England number 1.
Keane -- Man Mountain and looks a solid defender who should also be a rock for England
Schneiderlin -- Our Sami Khedira who keeps us ticking along
Gana -- Energetic tackling machine

These are all top 'supporting cast' members and with Bolasie and Coleman (unknown recoveries) as well as the adaptation of Klaassen and Sandro we seen to have a collection of 'supporting cast members' and no 'stars'.

Are we becoming another 'David Moyes' side with a team aiming to be greater than the sum of its parts?

Have we recycled the squad players and our 'jewels' to go back to a workmanlike Moyes style team?

I suggest that the next few signings will show us if we're going for 'stars', potential 'stars' or players to fit into a particular system.

Other than Leicester I don't think this approach has worked for anyone so I hope any new signings surprise us in a good way and they and the u21s provide the 'star' quality we seem to be missing to break into the top 4.

We'll be paying the thick end of £200M gross spend if that return to the past really is happening mate. It would beggar belief if so.

 

[Zatara]

@Zatara

Keane for Stones? I'm happy yes
Klaassen/Sigurdsson for Barkley? I'm happy yes
Deulofeu in reality has always been a bit part player for us
Rooney/Sandro for Lukaku? Never seen anything from Sandro, so can't comment. I'm sure you watch and awful lot more of European football than me. Rooney, well he looks fit, focussed, motivated and determined, something that seemed a little bit lost with Lukaku.

So all in all, I guess we can say I'm happy yes

Looks to me like 'sensible' signings...but wheres the cutting edge?

We'll see Zat. However I will say, Lukaku is not a global name, your view is too myopic. A fan favorite, I could definitely see Sandro becoming that in the years to come especially if he lives up to his number. A "potential world class defender" that has so much "potential" that he was benched for quite a bit of City's season. Keane is going to surpass Stones soon if he hasn't already.

Also I find it strange that somehow implicitly your arguments downplay the need for consistency. It's almost as if you want us to be in a perpetual state of rebuilding by buying the new "jewels" every time we spend on a player.

Edit: Global Name is a term you can play fast and loose with. I'd say once my casual acquaintances who ask about the sport when I talk about it mention the name Lukaku then he'd become a Global Name.

Lukaku is really well known here in Asia....

Granted, we have more established players now but that's what we needed. We're starting our Europa campaign tomorrow with two captains from last years final...

Lookman, Sandro, Dowell, Davies, Pickford, Calvert-Lewin... tons of upcoming talent.

Just have to hope one of them turns out to be our star with the xfactor....

@Zatara

"For Stones we have Pickford and Keane already, Williams/Jags is the weak link. I think we need a centre back signing whose another level up from these two...someone in the VVD, Koulibaly, Gimenez, Sanchez bracket.

Lukaku goes and we should be looking at someone who can be potentially a world star, an icon for the team. Its got to be a Dolberg or someone else whose got everything in his locker to be truly world class

This level of player...some stardust on top of the 7/10 performance players"

lol lol lol

I literally could have written your response myself; absolutely knew what you were going to say. You're whinging we've lost our jewels yet think we should be replacing them with unproven kids instead of tried & tested players like Rooney and Sigurdsson. Okay mate.

VVD unproven?

Rooney is on his last legs....Sigurdsson is not a star player...

There should be one player at least with the skills...like the top sides all have...we don't.

Possibly the most sensible post all night....

 

[Zatara]

I don't quite think it has as I'm here. If you think we are back to a David Moyes team or will be your totally deluded but it's your opinion mate.

And btw that dog your referring to they're died. Some people need to think before they speak.[/QUOTE]

I hope you take your own advice.

 

[peteblue]

I would think we've traded in our knives for something much better....

My dads ship......

 

[canuckblue]

My dads ship......

Nice. Which ship was it?

 

[The binman chronicles]

Definitely look more solid....but for the money..wheres the star quality?

Sandro may turn out to be the next Lukaku, remember it was just us and WBA after him when we got him.

Keane I think is better than Stones, we've got Morgan to pick the ball up from the defenders and start spraying it around.

Del was a risk, could he handle it in this league? Perhaps he is a cut above Bolasie but just not in the PL.

For Ross he was one of ours so see Dowell, Davies and the young ones we bought in DCL, Lookman, Onyekuru etc.

I'm not going to say I'm happy with the stars we have, athough we have got one in Rooney. Everyone here wants more but to get them you have to have the league finish or have won something. That's why we have a team that can compete for starters, we can then bejazzle the playing staff over the next few years if we continue to look the business.

 

[GlosBlue]

They've all taken a step up. As for Moyes, the current team looks like a typical Moyes team...don't you think?

The attack is far superior to anything Moyes had. Not necessarily down to him but more a lack of funds. To be fair I wouldn't mind a Moyes defence! I think this team is much better than his with small exceptions here and there e.g. Arteta and Cahill. Plus I think there will be a few more in. Plus the youth team is much more successful now and providing good competition for places.

 

[peteblue]

Nice. Which ship was it?

HMS Duke of York.......

 

[canuckblue]

HMS Duke of York.......

Cool. When did he serve?

 

[ilikecheese]

The wheels are coming off for Zat's quoting @Woolly Blue.

 

[Zatara]

loving the self defeating behaviours in this thread.

'they weren't our jewels' , 'they were rubbish' ,'we didn't want them anyway', 'we have much better now' .

these 'bad players' went to man city , man utd , Barcelona and potentially spurs , who last time I looked were all in the champions league this year and will actually be competing for silverware.

I'm sure we would be better with those players in our squad.
if the issue was reversed and we were signing stones lukaku barkley and deulofeu I'm pretty sure we would be saying we were building a team for the long term and dancing on the ceiling.

don't get me wrong , we are doing ok with the business coming in, but the money aside, we are doing terrible at holding on to players good enough to play for the so called 'elite' clubs.

I do ask myself 'well how can we compete with the higher teams if our 'best' players see us as nothing more than a stepping stone and we end up selling them to the very same clubs we are trying to catch ?'
also 'whos next ? if davies lookman keane klassen gana sandro are successful in any way , will they too be cherry picked by teams we aim to overtake ?'

so I hate to say it but I think we are still treading water in all honesty.
I do hope for a further statement of intent from the club , and one thats bigger and better than just overspending 50 million on Sigurdsson tbh.

Agreed. If we went in for someone for 50mil id expect a star or someone to change our game a bit....on a defender that lands a top bracket player. Surely we should focus on having one top class area in our team?

We look 'solid' but at the same time theres big gaps in the squad. Our defence could be improved enormously with minimal effort

Possibly the most sensible post all night....

The manager seems 'sensible' as do the 'signings'

We'll be paying the thick end of £200M gross spend if that return to the past really is happening mate. It would beggar belief if so.

Which players excite you, as in the ones you think could be big names in the league and globally known.

For me, possibly Keane and Pickford because of England...otherwise its the kids.

 

[KaiserEFC]

For gods sake people we will come out of this a better TEAM and SQUAD.


Also this.

4 jewels who didn't do a thing between themselves, overrated tarts

 

[peteblue]

Cool. When did he serve?

WW2.......