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Bigger Club: Everton or Man City

Lads?

  • Everton FC

    Votes: 38 17.1%

  • Manchester City FC

    Votes: 143 64.4%

  • Cheese on Oil Money Toast

    Votes: 41 18.5%
  • Total voters
    222
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The mindset of fans to harp on about our illustrious “history” won’t make us successful in the future because the mantra and expertise which made the club successful then has been eroded through years of incompetence. The best we can hope for is to beat a few of the sky darlings each season and to maybe get to a cup final. The playing field is now so skewed beyond repair with oil rich nation states involved who can find the cost of new stadia, marquee signings, deep playing squads and billions of investment down the back of a sofa meaning clubs like Everton have little to no chance of being able to compete. During this time those clubs have been advancing their brand far beyond what the greatest business brains in the world could ever hope to achieve at Everton.

Media, tv and advertising companies are all lining up to throw even more money at the richest clubs while every other club squabbles over the scraps. Then you have the drawbridge being raised by ffp to make sure the elite stay the elite. The train left the station years ago, we were sat in a puddle outside looking at the clouds while reminiscing about beating the mighty Watford in a cup final.

Happy Sunday everyone.
 
Neiler said:
No, financial doping mate.

There is no skill at all required - its easy to build when there are no limits or they don't stay within the limits- its impossible for City to fail - accepting it is colluding with it. I would laud them if they were playing with the same deck as everyone else they aren't and its well documented by some of the best sporting investigative journalists in the world, they have been found guilty of it and are facing a further 115 charges. That's not ok, it destroys competitive sport, integrity and denies others of their fair rewards and undermines the integrity of competitions.

City's titles and their progress all have a massive * beside them.
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It’s interesting isn’t it….there appears to have been some shenanigans outside the rules but they actually did have a plan and in my opinion would have got there anyway (it probably would have taken them slightly longer). They planned from early on to get Pep in so they brought in Txiki Begiristain in 2012 (who worked closely with Pep at Barcelona), and then Pep followed in 2016. They also invested heavily in their youth set up, so they did the right things within the rules but seemingly took things beyond.

Every trophy they win in my opinion presents any sanctioning body with more of a challenge around what punitive measures they take if they find them guilty …e.g. It becomes more difficult to strip titles off them. This narrows it down in my opinion to a significant points deduction / ban / fine.
 
Blue peter said:
It’s interesting isn’t it….there appears to have been some shenanigans outside the rules but they actually did have a plan and in my opinion would have got there anyway (it probably would have taken them slightly longer). They planned from early on to get Pep in so they brought in Txiki Begiristain in 2012 (who worked closely with Pep at Barcelona), and then Pep followed in 2016. They also invested heavily in their youth set up, so they did the right things within the rules but seemingly took things beyond.

Every trophy they win in my opinion presents any sanctioning body with more of a challenge around what punitive measures they take if they find them guilty …e.g. It becomes more difficult to strip titles off them. This narrows it down in my opinion to a significant points deduction / ban / fine.
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I appreciate but dont accept that balanced view mate, i think the scope and the scale of progression and growth is to big, to quick and to impactul to be put down to any degree of fairness, good decision making and skill - why is Pep there? why Halland? - are they natural successors to Mark Hughes and Niall Quinn or Shaun Goater - its not organic or authentic - it all starts with money.

Equally the youth side of things we know youth recruitment is an economy in itself the wages City and Chelsea offer younger players others like us cant compete with - again it looks like its organic its not. Its used to smoke screen FFP too.

As someone else said they wasted a lot of money getting it wrong before they got it right, but finance is and always has been the lure, is there dumb cheating or clever cheating or is there just cheating.
 
judge said:
I hate this 'we're a bigger club than you' nonsense. It smacks of snobberey and just gives a (very flimsy) excuse for the likes of WBA (11th in the table, not won anything since 1968) and Preston (26th in the table - not won anything since before the industrial revolution) to look down on others. It's just a desperate attempt to put those 'plucky little clubs' that have the temerity to win things without spending gazillions (Leicester?, Coventry, Ipswich?) in their place. History is fine, and it's good to acknowledge it, but the 'big club' thing suggests a feeling of entitlement that, just because you won something years ago/are based in a large city you have a divine right to beat the 'lesser' reams. I hate in in others and i hate it in us. We haven't won anything since 1995. We're not a big club and i'd never refer to us as one, even if we went on a run of success similar to City's.
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That's a bit like been judgemental of being judgemental....

Clubs are not all the same in terms of size, history, culture or whatever metric/descriptor you wish to apply. For me that "Size" is mainly dictated by size of fanbase, be it match-going, national and/or international.

That in turn is dictated by size of the local catchment and the historic success of those clubs. That can be generational, distant or just sporadic.

As regards City.... their record average attendance at Maine Rd was just 42k. That was in a ground that once held 84k. Yes, they had a sizeable and solid fanbase that stuck with them, but the smallest of the 4 big north west clubs.
 


Neiler said:
I appreciate but dont accept that balanced view mate, i think the scope and the scale of progression and growth is to big, to quick and to impactul to be put down to any degree of fairness, good decision making and skill - why is Pep there? why Halland? - are they natural successors to Mark Hughes and Niall Quinn or Shaun Goater - its not organic or authentic - it all starts with money.

Equally the youth side of things we know youth recruitment is an economy in itself the wages City and Chelsea offer younger players others like us cant compete with - again it looks like its organic its not. Its used to smoke screen FFP too.

As someone else said they wasted a lot of money getting it wrong before they got it right, but finance is and always has been the lure, is there dumb cheating or clever cheating or is there just cheating.
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Absolutely….i was saying though there was a plan to make the most of the money….the post of yours I was responding to said it took no skill. Presonally I think it takes a plan and a degree of skill to go alongside the money as our flirtation with money showed and Chelsea’s recent expenditure showed. You can’t just throw money at the problem, it also needs an investment of ambition, expertise, dilligence, hard work. I absolutely accept however that it looks like they have not remained within the rules and completely agree that the finance is the key driver.
 
Tom Hughes said:
That's a bit like been judgemental of being judgemental....

Clubs are not all the same in terms of size, history, culture or whatever metric/descriptor you wish to apply. For me that "Size" is mainly dictated by size of fanbase, be it match-going, national and/or international.

That in turn is dictated by size of the local catchment and the historic success of those clubs. That can be generational, distant or just sporadic.

As regards City.... their record average attendance at Maine Rd was just 42k. That was in a ground that once held 84k. Yes, they had a sizeable and solid fanbase that stuck with them, but the smallest of the 4 big north west clubs.
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I think they also held the record attendance for a league game up until Spurs broke with at Wembley a few years back. Man City always reminded me in terms of fan base, and general size of us, they just did not have the success to go with it. I think that maybe also had something to do with both clubs being in similar sized cities, that both held a relationship with ‘bigger’, more traditionally successful clubs.
 
Brett Angell Delight said:
Love this. As if we haven’t spent a shedload of money and just got exponentially crapper.
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This is generally because you need a decent base level to start with, superstars don't drop what they are doing and go to 'projects' that might succeed years down the line.

Had we been allowed to spend heavily in the January when Ancelotti was here and we were in the top 4 at the time, swapping out a few of the weaker links for even better players than we had brought in during the summer then we might of kicked on and Carlo could have stayed. It's so 'Everton that' it hurts.
 

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