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Champions League revamp

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Drico said:
That's the fault of the other German clubs though. Last night, one of the biggest, Schalke 04, were relegated. Hamburger SV, European champions in 1983 and one of the biggest clubs in Europe, are in the second division. You can slate Bayern for being successful - but nothing they have done was based on artificial power, oil money, or American investors. Their dominance was home grown. Would the leadership have been interested in the ESL? Definitely. But the way the clubs are governed - with fans having the majority say - ensures that those leaders must find other ways to maximise Bayern's position.

So, German football, unquestionably IS a shining light.
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I mean, that's a really weird way to come at it.

Bayern have the most money. Whether home grown or not.

Who takes Schalke's best talents (by and large)? Who takes Hamburg's?

Yes, those clubs have clearly been poorly run, but they haven't been helped by Bayern's total dominance either.

I'm not saying it's wrong. Big clubs often have more money and therefore more success and therefore more fans and it's one big cycle.
 

Amw79 said:
We’re so fortunate that Liverpool saved the day.

Statues for Klopp and Henderson.

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After a short interregnum business continues as normal.

EpY_7hdXUAct2jm
 
Amw79 said:
We’re so fortunate that Liverpool saved the day.

Statues for Klopp and Henderson.

Click to expand...

Klopp powerful, wow just wow, a load of garbled, bitter rubbish, attacking the earn it t-shirts, attacking, their song being used and attacking Gary Neville. He did mention when pushed that he felt the same as last time. All's I see every time he's interviewed is a nasty vindictive man, yet he is hailed as a hero. Milner deserved credit I will say that.
 
Big_nev said:
The point is as good as the German sytem is, as high as the attendances are, as well as the fans are treated and as amazing as the fan culture is the Bundesliga is dominated by a single club. A club that uses their own league as their personal Tinder app. Swiping right on whatever new player they feel like picking up on a free some time soon.

I'm not disagreeing with you that German football has a lot going for it but it's Bayern and everyone else.
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And as mentioned above, that is not the fault of Bayern. They have managed that club spectacularly - and it is a home-grown success. They can only dominate their league because HUGE clubs like Hamburger SV, Schalke 04, VfB Stuttgart, 1, FC Köln, Kaiserslautern, Hertha BSC, and others are incompetently managed. Every single one of those clubs is at least as big as or bigger than Everton. Every single one of them has been run by Wilhelm Kenwright. Competence is not a uniquely German trait. In England, Man City's dominance is oligarch-derived. Same for Chelsea. The German model effectively makes that impossible. English fans should be pleased about that. If Germany abolishes the 50+1 rule, the Bundesliga will immediately become the biggest league in the world as they have many more huge clubs than England has and a far bigger and wealthier domestic football culture to support it. Borussia Mönchengladbach, Eintract Frankfurt, Werder Bremen etc. And that is why Bayern are so brilliant (and horrible). They developed their dominance with this rule in place.

That said, it would be good for the game here if HSV and the other big clubs started punching their weight. But that's up to them to get their houses in order because there is nothing inherent in the system to preclude that - whereas in England we know that there is.
 

BlueToff said:
I mean, that's a really weird way to come at it.

Bayern have the most money. Whether home grown or not.

Who takes Schalke's best talents (by and large)? Who takes Hamburg's?

Yes, those clubs have clearly been poorly run, but they haven't been helped by Bayern's total dominance either.

I'm not saying it's wrong. Big clubs often have more money and therefore more success and therefore more fans and it's one big cycle.
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The point is the other clubs are their own worst enemies! Bayern can take their players because they have been managed by buffoons! For decades.

Here, Man City can take Spurs's players no matter how well Spurs have been managed because they have oil money. They didn't earn that dominance through superb stewardship like Bayern did. They simply sold out to get it.

That's the difference.

Bayern's "total dominance" is not a product of oligarch wealth. It is organic. It is not Bayern's job to "help" incompetently managed clubs. It is for them to put their houses in order and catch up. There is no impossible barrier. In England, you can put your house in order as much as you like, but to what end? To finish seventh.
 

Come on @Drico Bayern have a monopoly on German football.

Leicester are superbly run yet they dont dominate our league because we have competition and money via ownership investment.

Sadly in recent years RS have been ran superbly yet have had 2x brilliant seasons and are now 7th.

Since Bayern last didnt win a title we've had 4-5 different title winners.
 
Drico said:
And as mentioned above, that is not the fault of Bayern. They have managed that club spectacularly - and it is a home-grown success. They can only dominate their league because HUGE clubs like Hamburger SV, Schalke 04, VfB Stuttgart, 1, FC Köln, Kaiserslautern, Hertha BSC, and others are incompetently managed. Every single one of those clubs is at least as big as or bigger than Everton. Every single one of them has been run by Wilhelm Kenwright. Competence is not a uniquely German trait. In England, Man City's dominance is oligarch-derived. Same for Chelsea. The German model effectively makes that impossible. English fans should be pleased about that. If Germany abolishes the 50+1 rule, the Bundesliga will immediately become the biggest league in the world as they have many more huge clubs than England has and a far bigger and wealthier domestic football culture to support it. Borussia Mönchengladbach, Eintract Frankfurt, Werder Bremen etc. And that is why Bayern are so brilliant (and horrible). They developed their dominance with this rule in place.

That said, it would be good for the game here if HSV and the other big clubs started punching their weight. But that's up to them to get their houses in order because there is nothing inherent in the system to preclude that - whereas in England we know that there is.
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No club is going to be able to challenge Bayern consistently with having some serious cash injected in to them. Problem is (like in most leagues) any time a club starts to build up the vultures come along and pick them apart. We've seen Leipzig rat their way around the rules to try and challenge but it's just ended up with everyone in Germany hating them.

We could argue back and forth all night about the great things about German football but the fact remains mate, Bayern are a win away from a 9th consecutive title. That's really unhealthy for any league.
 
I see these clubs advisors etc with the premier league are being asked to step down or will be forcibly removed. This is great as none of the clubs should have an influence over any of this, the question is why the hell did they in the first place?
 

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