Dan Meis Workshop

[kithnou]

If Goodison had had a capacity of 53k for example the past ten years - would we still have been selling out 98% of available seats? - personally i doubt we would have been close.

As I answered above applies mate. Let's not hope we will be rubbish for too much longer.

 

[bluestevon]

Basic principles - design the stadium for the future not for the present day.

Take into account increased revenues which are linked to increased performance and success.

Success breeds more support and higher gates.

Don’t cheap out and build 53k.

Reality has to be factored in - you can't build a new stadium based on the assumption you are gonna be winning leagues, cups and European trophies and your popularity will explode, because that ignores the fact that the league has at least 6 currently other teams which will have the exact same business model - and all with a significant head start in terms of delivering that.

You also can't completely ignore the fact popularity of the game can go both directions, and attendances on average can go down across the sport as well as upwards, i remember the 80's mate and the attendances figures we saw across the country back then

 

[Jamiednm]

In my opinion, the most important aspects of a new stadium are:
- Greater corporate capacity (essential to larger revenue).
- A better match day experience, eliminating restricted views and therefore enabling more people to go to the match.

What isn't important:
- Penis-measuring.
- A capacity that looks good on paper.

If you looked at it without Blue-tinted spectacles, somewhere in the region of 52k-55k would probably be absolutely ideal. I don't think the general match day revenue is as important as it used to be, considering TV income now dwarfs it, and a good corporate capacity will significantly boost our match day income anyway.

Add in naming rights, non-football events throughout the year, and facilities like bars and restaurants in a more central part of the city, and our new stadium becomes a huge asset. It would be capable of holding Europa League Finals and European Championship matches as well. Would a 60k stadium in a nondescript area of the city have the same non-matchday attraction? No chance.

 

[kithnou]

Reality has to be factored in - you can't build a new stadium based on the assumption you are gonna be winning leagues, cups and European trophies and your popularity will explode, because that ignores the fact that the league has at least 6 currently other teams which will have the exact same business model - and all with a significant head start in terms of delivering that.

You also can't completely ignore the fact popularity of the game can go both directions, and attendances on average can go down across the sport as well as upwards, i remember the 80's mate and the attendances figures we saw across the country back then

Best tell Mr Moshiri that mate because he had big ambitions when he took over.

 

[kithnou]

In my opinion, the most important aspects of a new stadium are:
- Greater corporate capacity (essential to larger revenue).
- A better match day experience, eliminating restricted views and therefore enabling more people to go to the match.

What isn't important:
- Penis-measuring.
- A capacity that looks good on paper.

If you looked at it without Blue-tinted spectacles, somewhere in the region of 52k-55k would probably be absolutely ideal. I don't think the general match day revenue is as important as it used to be, considering TV income now dwarfs it, and a good corporate capacity will significantly boost our match day income anyway.

Add in naming rights, non-football events throughout the year, and facilities like bars and restaurants in a more central part of the city, and our new stadium becomes a huge asset. It would be capable of holding Europa League Finals and European Championship matches as well. Would a 60k stadium in a nondescript area of the city have the same non-matchday attraction? No chance.

When did it become a choice between 52k at Bramley Moore or 60k at a nondescript area?
High 50s to 60k can be done at Bramley Moore and still have the qualities of the 52k stadium.
Comes down to money only, not the venue.

 

[bluestevon]

Because, most of those new stadiums would be able to be expanded comfortably if need be?
Because, we were promised by Moshiri Hollywood Managers and CL football. If that fluff ever eventuates, we can't have more demand that 50-53k easily?

Spurs and Arsenal will both hit significant problems if they attempt to expand in the future mate, City are only just beginning to plan for an expansion - to 60k for the best team in the country the past ten years basically, United have no plans to expand despite arguably being the biggest club in the world and the rs are expanding finally to around 60k - but will struggle to expand further parts as the Kop is effectively hamstrung by Breck road. and Chelsea have taken how many years to decide that 43k is too small for them - years when they have been at the top of the tree.

If in twenty years time - Everton are in a position where 60k was essential for them, then we will have been that successful i honestly won't give a flying one about the capacity as I'll have finally seen the club not be utter garbage like they have been for near enough 30 years.

 

[Jamiednm]

When did it become a choice between 52k at Bramley Moore or 60k at a nondescript area?
High 50s to 60k can be done at Bramley Moore and still have the qualities of the 52k stadium.
Comes down to money only, not the venue.

Dan Meis seems to be of the mindset that 60k is unrealistic at BMD.

 

[bluestevon]

Best tell Mr Moshiri that mate because he had big ambitions when he took over.

Yup and for us the success of say Arsenal over the past ten years would be a massive success of the owner and the club - but even with that type of performance it wouldn't create a huge increase in demand for us mate or even in support.

 

[kithnou]

Dan Meis seems to be of the mindset that 60k is unrealistic at BMD.

If I read right, he said it can be done but he preferred smaller, although I think the Club has been in his ear.

 

[kithnou]

Who said Evertonians can't have a proper debate?
Personally, I feel he/they/we will stretch and find a middle ground in the mid 50s.

 

[cjuk87]

In my opinion, the most important aspects of a new stadium are:
- Greater corporate capacity (essential to larger revenue).
- A better match day experience, eliminating restricted views and therefore enabling more people to go to the match.

What isn't important:
- Penis-measuring.
- A capacity that looks good on paper.

If you looked at it without Blue-tinted spectacles, somewhere in the region of 52k-55k would probably be absolutely ideal. I don't think the general match day revenue is as important as it used to be, considering TV income now dwarfs it, and a good corporate capacity will significantly boost our match day income anyway.

Add in naming rights, non-football events throughout the year, and facilities like bars and restaurants in a more central part of the city, and our new stadium becomes a huge asset. It would be capable of holding Europa League Finals and European Championship matches as well. Would a 60k stadium in a nondescript area of the city have the same non-matchday attraction? No chance.

Spot on with every bit of that.

Too many are more concerned about our neighbours mocking that it isn't 60k or that they have a bigger capacity etc, forget all that.

We're going to have a brand new home, in a world class stadium FINALLY!! The money we can make from concerts and events alone is a huge huge positive. I genuinely can't wait.

 

[MickA]

Don't understand the complaints/moans etc about 'needing' a 60+ stadium myself, in a split city support wise, rather than a one horse (being punched) town like the Geordies, the catchment area for outside the local area is hamstrung by the presence of not only Liverpool, but United and now City as well as numerous other 'smaller' teams which have more localised support. Foreign fans are and will remain a absolute minority for the foreseeable - let's think about that when we've been a top club in the current era winning things and at the business end of European competition for about 10-15 years really.

and why exactly are people getting vexed about how many other fans are inside the stadium that they are presumably already in, the best atmosphere any of us have been at will more than likely have been whilst in the away ends at grounds anyway. a bloated 65k Goodison which has compromised what atmosphere we can generate in order to stick an extra 10k seats in serves zero purpose besides long term generating some more profit to the owner, in terms of strengthening and building a successful team any money extra would be small change in reality.

I also doubt most people complaining will struggle to get tickets, and a fair few i'd bet wouldn't bother for whatever reason no matter what the capacity is - but hey it's a good excuse to moan and give the club a kick i guess.

For me personally I'd go for 60k as I think the demand and location can fill it but if it's 55k I won't be reaching for the pitchfork. Any less than that and I'd have concerns about who's making the decisions.

What is odd to me looking at what has been released is that we don't seem on the face of it to be embracing the corp side enough, the box type seating doesn't even cover the length of the stand. This is an area that has consistently sold out way in advance of the season starting and it's not difficult to think that demand would be even greater with facilities improved by 100%. Esk has done decent analysis on this and how those areas in turn could subsidise other areas of the ground.

Still, the plans aren't out yet so we're all speculating really. I have a hunch it's 57/58 mind.

 

[MickA]

Yup and for us the success of say Arsenal over the past ten years would be a massive success of the owner and the club - but even with that type of performance it wouldn't create a huge increase in demand for us mate or even in support.

I'd love to see the police figures for PL attendances. Think an Arsenal fan obtained a few via a FOI request and there were games in the 40s.

I think for us in Liverpool the key is to keep prices as competitive as possible and try to ensure we get as many people through the gates as possible in the course of a season. We can't just up the prices nor can we rely on tourism.

That's where we need the real professional expertise, just hope we've got people in place.

 

[kithnou]

I'd love to see the police figures for PL attendances. Think an Arsenal fan obtained a few via a FOI request and there were games in the 40s.

I think for us in Liverpool the key is to keep prices as competitive as possible and try to ensure we get as many people through the gates as possible in the course of a season. We can't just up the prices nor can we rely on tourism.

That's where we need the real professional expertise, just hope we've got people in place.

you poor man...

 

[ToffeeTim]

We sell out when we are utterly abysmal. None of those teams like Arsenal and Spurs etc have the same scenario. Arsenal fans have jumped ship and voted with their feet after one season of no CL football. I don't think they are a reason to not aim big.