Dan Meis Workshop

[Big Fat Sam]

Mad isn't it that we've been able to piss 200m up the wall on useless players and now cannot afford another 200m to secure a stadium for us for the next 100 years.

Everton that.

 

[Pabbers]

Wont happen, and if we cant afford it then we shouldnt.

 

[toffeeblue9]

It isn't attracting potential backers that's the problem, it's the rate of interest being offered which makes this a financial decision which needs a lot of thought going into it

I know of one financial institution who had expressed interest in being involved in the financing element, although knowing them I expect they wanted it to be as part of a consortium to ensure the risk wasn't all theirs - but, without giving too much away, the investment would form part of one of their fund's portfolios - so the rate of interest required would probably be a fair bit above what we have been able to agree with LCC

I suspect that we've had multiple conversations with other institutions and loaning the money isn't the issue, it's the associated risk premium and consequently the interest rate on the loan which is the sticking point. There has to be a limit on what we can make financially viable.

 

[OneTrueLegend]

Can't help but think we are missing a trick not installing a retractable roof.

We are a club of firsts and it would give that unique quality plus the benefit of creating an indoor arena for the city with would generate added income plus attract the biggest artists in the World to the home of the biggest band ever!

Dan Mei's has stated it would cost an additional 200m but surely that would only add value to the club, stadium and brand which could increase advertising.

Mad isn't it that we've been able to piss 200m up the wall on useless players and now cannot afford another 200m to secure a stadium for us for the next 100 years.

Everton that.

I think because the Echo Arena now exists on the same road, the council wouldn't approve plans for us to have a massive arena right next to it, with a retractable roof and pitch because, for them, it would detract from the Echo Arena. It just highlights that we really missed the boat with the Kings Dock stadium.
I can sort of understand the argument that the retractable roof on its own, wouldn't add that much revenue, because you can only really use it from May to August for other events, because you wouldn't want people trampling all over the pitch, you need the retractable pitch as well, so it can be used as an indoor area all year round, then you can get your moneys worth. Like the Veltins Arena and Germany. But I am not sure there is enough room for a retractable pitch on the site. Unless it went into the "fan zone" area and that would affect access.

 

[RobSpurs]

It is slightly concerning that Mayor Anderson, a big player in this project, is mentioning alternatives if we can’t fund it.

There would be uproar if the council built this and we rented it. It wouldn’t go through, not a chance.

Moshiri needs to stump up the rest of the money or leave. He’s been brought in to deliver the stadium.

I've been an optimist about this project, but the way the sands keep shifting on what the finance package is or might be is making me more wary. So within the space of less than a year the council have gone from guarantor to offering an actual loan, and now they're quietly floating the idea of owning the stadium themselves. Bizarre goings on to say the least.

The best reading of this is to remember what Anderson's and Moshiri's ultimate motives are. The Mayor wants to kick-start the dock scheme however it happens, and it doesn't make much difference to him if the stadium is rented or owned by the club. Moshiri, on the other hand, will surely only get the big return on his investment if the club builds and owns the stadium and he sells both off together to whoever your next owner might be. From that pov even if the Mayor floats this as an option, it seems very unlikely Moshiri will want to take him up on it.

Actually, the best reading of this is the Anderson is speaking from his arse, kind of like some of the stuff he said about the Commonwealth Games, and this isn't even an option.

 

[mickefc]

we are just a profiteering vehicle for Moshiri... its never been so evident mate.

I hate the fact the club will be lumbered with debt after he is long gone. I will cope with that if the stadium is truly iconic as suggested and world class.

i just hope he doesnt leave us with a half baked stadium with 52k capacity and having to service a debt for the next 35 years, whilst he wanders into the sun 5 x up what he has put into us.

@davek

Why do you tag davek in half of your posts?

 

[RobSpurs]

I think because the Echo Arena now exists on the same road, the council wouldn't approve plans for us to have a massive arena right next to it, with a retractable roof and pitch because, for them, it would detract from the Echo Arena. It just highlights that we really missed the boat with the Kings Dock stadium.
I can sort of understand the argument that the retractable roof on its own, wouldn't add that much revenue, because you can only really use it from May to August for other events, because you wouldn't want people trampling all over the pitch, you need the retractable pitch as well, so it can be used as an indoor area all year round, then you can get your moneys worth. Like the Veltins Arena and Germany. But I am not sure there is enough room for a retractable pitch on the site. Unless it went into the "fan zone" area and that would affect access.

You could always have it retract under the fanzone, as we're doing. Depends if it's worth the extra cost. Same goes for the roof. Again comparing with our stadium, this was Levy's answer when asked about a retractable roof at NWHL:

Q: Was a retractable roof ever considered to create a full multi-use venue?
A: This wasn’t considered in any detail primarily because the question must always be asked as to why it would be necessary. The number of events for which a retractable roof is needed would not be great enough to offset the cost/make it viable.

 

[The binman chronicles]

I've been an optimist about this project, but the way the sands keep shifting on what the finance package is or might be is making me more wary. So within the space of less than a year the council have gone from guarantor to offering an actual loan, and now they're quietly floating the idea of owning the stadium themselves. Bizarre goings on to say the least.

The best reading of this is to remember what Anderson's and Moshiri's ultimate motives are. The Mayor wants to kick-start the dock scheme however it happens, and it doesn't make much difference to him if the stadium is rented or owned by the club. Moshiri, on the other hand, will surely only get the big return on his investment if the club builds and owns the stadium and he sells both off together to whoever your next owner might be. From that pov even if the Mayor floats this as an option, it seems very unlikely Moshiri will want to take him up on it.

Actually, the best reading of this is the Anderson is speaking from his arse, kind of like some of the stuff he said about the Commonwealth Games, and this isn't even an option.

It still has the power to boost his share value even if we don't own the stadium. This is as long as the yearly payments are reasonable enough. At the moment we own Goodison but doesn't make a great deal, if the new stadium generates enough profit less what we would pay in rent to match that figure we get from Goodison then it would surely be a positive to any investor to have the new stadium.

 

[GwladysBlue]

I've been an optimist about this project, but the way the sands keep shifting on what the finance package is or might be is making me more wary. So within the space of less than a year the council have gone from guarantor to offering an actual loan, and now they're quietly floating the idea of owning the stadium themselves. Bizarre goings on to say the least.

The best reading of this is to remember what Anderson's and Moshiri's ultimate motives are. The Mayor wants to kick-start the dock scheme however it happens, and it doesn't make much difference to him if the stadium is rented or owned by the club. Moshiri, on the other hand, will surely only get the big return on his investment if the club builds and owns the stadium and he sells both off together to whoever your next owner might be. From that pov even if the Mayor floats this as an option, it seems very unlikely Moshiri will want to take him up on it.

Actually, the best reading of this is the Anderson is speaking from his arse, kind of like some of the stuff he said about the Commonwealth Games, and this isn't even an option.

I’ve been trying to stay positive about this stadium build, but it does keep shifting all of the time.

I have no faith now that this board can see this project through. The hints of 60,000+ capacity from Meis have now been scaled way back down to 50,000 and Elstone has been putting the usual negative spin on it.

Seems to be going the way of Kings Dock and Kirkby.

Moshiri could fund the other £280m needed for the build, but he doesn’t seem willing to. He must not have any belief in this project.

If this does fall through, the whole club goes with it. Fans are already disillusioned with the club. We’d go the way of Aston Villa, except they actually have a better infrastructure.

 

[Connor]

We’re moving fellas and we’re paying for it in one form or another.

 

[RobSpurs]

It still has the power to boost his share value even if we don't own the stadium. This is as long as the yearly payments are reasonable enough. At the moment we own Goodison but doesn't make a great deal, if the new stadium generates enough profit less what we would pay in rent to match that figure we get from Goodison then it would surely be a positive to any investor to have the new stadium.

Positive yes, but I expect his big plan is to grow the club into one which owns a waterfront asset worth half a billion pounds in an area of regeneration and growth. Renting a council owned stadium isn't quite the same.

Same reason the Spammers tried to buy the Olympic Stadium in Stratford. Granted, it's bad for football which a council owned BMD wouldn't be, but renting it isn't proving as much of a cash cow as they'd hoped. Their owners wanted to own it, and then cash out.

 

[ashwuk76]

We’re moving fellas and we’re paying for it in one form or another.

You know part of me really wants the council to pay for it and build it just to see the kopites explode....

 

[Connor]

You know part of me really wants the council to pay for it and build it just to see the kopites explode....

They still wouldn’t get the fact that even if Big Joe and his merry men secured the loan for the ground, we’d still be paying it back - plus interest.

More than they’ve ever put back into the city’s coffers.

 

[Saint Domingo]

Stop being so negative and pretending you have some deep understanding of finance. Until the big headline comes out from the club saying the stadium is off then it’s still on.

At the rate some of you are going it will be the morning of the first league game at Bramley Moore and you’ll still be saying ‘this isn’t going to happen’.

We’ve been given a timetable for 2022/23, the mayor has spoken if the finance deal, the architect has been doing consultation workshops. Now play all that off against one comment from the Mayor which is actually a positive saying even if we couldn’t get the money the council could pay all of it and ask yourself is it worth losing your head over.

 

[ashwuk76]

They still wouldn’t get the fact that even if Big Joe and his merry men secured the loan for the ground, we’d still be paying it back - plus interest.

More than they’ve ever put back into the city’s coffers.

Agreed mate but them lot don't understand anything, so that part doesn't bother me really.

The fact the council are now being touted as loaning the entire amount isn't a surprise, afterall Moshiri is a billionaire accountant. .. and it's such an accountant thing to do. He didn't become a billionaire by paying for things himself . And yes I do know how he became a billionaire.

To be honest as long as it gets built I don't really care how it's funded as long as it's a viable option and doesn't sink us, which it won't.