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2024/25 David Moyes

Kevsleftpeg said:
Everton as a football club hasn’t had success. But that doesn’t mean Moyes wasn’t a success as a manager here. He did an excellent job.
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Agreed.

In the context of our club's history (we STILL have more leagues than Chelsea and Spurs put together), what Moyes did was not really a success.

However, when you take into account the lack of funds at his disposal... just getting us back into the top 10 would have been almost miraculous. When he was appointed, I thought he'd take us down. I didn't feel that he had the requisite experience. However, he proved me wrong and he turned us into a regular top 6 outfit.
 
Ian said:
Depends how you define 'success'.

Purists will say it means winning a trophy; some would say Champions League qualification; some would say any European qualification.

For most clubs, these are not realistic definitions. The question is, whether Everton 2002 were one of those clubs. Let's be honest, we were.

One realistic measure of success would be, say, achieving better than other teams with comparable budgets; another, for the manager, might be to do better than the managers at the same club who preceded and succeeded you. On both of these measures, his time here was a success. Fergie might subliminally have had ulterior motives, but he was canny and he rated the job Moyes did here so highly that he personally recommended him.

For a team who had been regularly fighting relegation and who were outspent by every team that finished above us and some that didn't, an average 7th place finish, including 4th one year, was a massive improvement from where he found us. We got close to a couple of trophies because he took a poor team and made them better.

I share your frustration that he clearly had his limits, which seemed to cost us those chances of a trophy when they were there. It was galling. The football wasn't always pretty, but it got better over time. There were some poor signings, but some excellent ones for very little money: Coleman, Pienaar, Baines, Cahill, Arteta, Stones, Jags, Lescott, Distin, Yobo. Any one of these would be first name on the team sheet now.

On balance, it's hard to say his first stint with us wasn't successful by any reasonable measure. I'm not convinced his 2nd term here will be as positive tbh. I agree there are better managers out there, but who knows if they would have come? I hope we're not paying him £5m a year and I hope he isn't still manager in 3 years unless we've qualified for Europe or won a trophy. Most importantly, though, I don't want the club relegated. Secondly, it would be nice to see a few goals, or at least shots on target. If nothing improves, it's going to be pretty tough, like, but I think he'll get more out of them than Dyche. Surely...?
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Excellent post.
 

He's here and there's no point anybody whining about it now. The fans need to, once again, rally behind these largely undeserving players and give Moyes our support. He has great affection for Everton which can only be a good thing and is the best option to keep us in the division - which is what we have been left with after the huge damage left by Kenwright/Moshiri/Thelwell/Dyche.

I'll say one thing though, unless he gets at least two starting XI players in we'll probably be in the mix until the last day.
 
GoldenToffee said:
He's here and there's no point anybody whining about it now. The fans need to, once again, rally behind these largely undeserving players and give Moyes our support. He has great affection for Everton which can only be a good thing and is the best option to keep us in the division - which is what we have been left with after the huge damage left by Kenwright/Moshiri/Thelwell/Dyche.

I'll say one thing though, unless he gets at least two starting XI players in we'll probably be in the mix until the last day.
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I don't get this Thelwell hatred so I think moyes will show that some of his signings will shine ,you seem to forget he has been constrained by the funds ,availability and restricted to taking loans that were about not perhaps those on his wish list .
 
blue1948 said:
I don't get this Thelwell hatred so I think moyes will show that some of his signings will shine ,you seem to forget he has been constrained by the funds ,availability and restricted to taking loans that were about not perhaps those on his wish list .
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I personally don't think he's done anywhere near enough to justify a new contract. You're right in that there are mitigating factors, but a Director of Football purposely leaving a first team with one (awful) left back and two late thirty-year-old right backs and another one that the manager refuses to play, is virtually self-sabotage. Money, albeit in short supply, was there for Beto, Chermiti and O'Brien (around 90 million for transfer fees plus salaries over four years). That alone is simply shocking and nowhere near good enough.
 
I'm actually optimistic about his return, yes it's not an exhilarating legendary name, solid obscure manager from outside the epl or up and coming promising manager, but moyes hasn't been in the Chinese league being a has-been like Benitez, or getting his team relegated in his last stint like dyche, he was pretty successful at west ham revitalizing their fortunes a couple of times , he can actually cultivate talents even recent ones like rice and honestly he's everything dyche masqueraded as when he first arrived. As dyche claimed that perceptions of him were inaccurate as a an extremely negative manager (he was) but was actually a pragmatic direct playing sensible football manager which Is moyes. His football isn't prime Barcelona but it is does involv attacking the goal unlike dyche. So not that most flashy hiring but sensible with where we're currently at as a club
 

I know moyes likes to source his players but I think thelwell's recent recruitment of players syncs up.with what would fit the profile of a moyes player such as ndiaye, Lindstrom, Tim and obrien , so they might be able to collaborate unlike dyche and thelwell
 
degsy said:
I don't like the 'Idea' of Moyes, but I can get behind him in the short term...I even got behind Benitez in the short term - while he was doing 'OK' early on, but deep down I knew he was shiiz (and what's more - a rs shiiz) with his obsession about Zonal Marking to name but one.

Moyes (and Benitez) - the longer he's here, the more he will have opportunity to revert to his old ways.

Hopefully he'll be too busy trying to win the odd game out of the next 19 to concentrate on not losing, or even worse - not losing by too much.

Deep down, I hope this 2.5 year deal is a mere fig leaf that;
A) gives him some authority with players, both present and incoming.
B) allows him to take a pay-off in June so TFG can get somebody decent in...but in reality I think we're stuck with Moyes.

So as a.ways, I'll get behind the team (despite Moyes) as we take it one game at a time.

A Leopard reputedly can't change its shorts - nor will Moyes, Damascean conversions not withstanding - most people don't change, they just become more so.

Under pressure they always revert to their default.

On the field, under pressure, natural passers will always pass, natural shooters will always shoot, natural dribblers will always dribble, head down merchants will always run in to blind alleys.

Don't get me wrong Moyes (used to) has his good points (and Dyche had done his dash...more or less said so himself)

But Moyes will always revert to being Moyes and the longer he's here the more he will revert - can't help himself.

*awaits headline- Moyes in cheeky bid for...'fill in a former Moyes player here.'

But In the manner of fickle fans everywhere - He wins the next 2 Home games and I won't hear a word against him.

Your last game (and tenure) is now history - (Clean Slate City Arizona)

You're only as good as your NEXT game!
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Thing is mate some good points raised but I disagree with the notion Moyes first intention going into games was not to lose.

It's a rewriting a bit if history. Moyes went into games away v the big 4/6 at the time with that mentality and no arguments, it's shy he ended up getting a lot of stick over the years due to us literally never winning any away game v the real top teams at the time (city exempt as their rise occurred during the letter part of notes time here).

Now compared to that, Moyes went into pretty much every home game expecting a result and went into 13/15 away games to get a result, and v the crap went out certainly to win the games.

Huge difference between Dyche setting up v Southampton or Leicester away to not get beat, or playing for 0-0s at home vs the likes of Fulham or Brentford.
 
Marius57 said:
It was also a crap team (compared to previous seasons of Man United) he inherited. An ageing squad that on paper, should never have won the league the season before.
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Was trawling through teams of years gone by under Moyes, checked out the side he inherited from Smith...

If anyone thinks the squad we have now is awful/the worst ever, then check out what Moyes initially had to work with at Everton and it'll make your eyes bleed, it was a truly abysmal side.

Also note that in 2007 Moyes did exactly what we need from him here now.

In one season he added the following

Howard, Jagielka, Baines, Pienaar and Yakuba.

04/05 he added

Arteta, Cahill, Bent, Beattie (ugh)

12/13 he added

Pienaar, Miralles, Stones, Naismith Oviedo

Given how bad finances were during those years and how often he had to utilise the loan and try before but market, he had a few great sessions of strengthening the side.

Most seasons saw a good addition or two often let down by the biggest buy flopping - Shandy Andy, Beattie, Kroldrup being probably the main three busts.
 

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