2024/25 David Moyes

[Billy Dean]

Somebody saying we need to demand an improvement? Isn't that literally the point of getting rid of the previous fella, so we improve? Maybe I missed those posts but I haven't seen any hostility towards Moyes or fellas willing him to fail. His appointment to me, was just very underwhelming.

I think those of us who didn't specifically want Moyes, merely wanted someone new, someone with a different mindset different to what we've seen before. I'm not exactly sure how anyone is going to be 'proven right' (or wrong) whether we win, lose or draw? I assume, closet kopites aside, all of us here want him to win every game including the FA Cup final. I do.

This is exactly it for me. I will get behind him now he's in but it feels like a missed chance to go in a new direction.

 

[GoldenToffee]

Thing is mate some good points raised but I disagree with the notion Moyes first intention going into games was not to lose.

It's a rewriting a bit if history. Moyes went into games away v the big 4/6 at the time with that mentality and no arguments, it's shy he ended up getting a lot of stick over the years due to us literally never winning any away game v the real top teams at the time (city exempt as their rise occurred during the letter part of notes time here).

Now compared to that, Moyes went into pretty much every home game expecting a result and went into 13/15 away games to get a result, and v the crap went out certainly to win the games.

Huge difference between Dyche setting up v Southampton or Leicester away to not get beat, or playing for 0-0s at home vs the likes of Fulham or Brentford.

Aye. I also don't think it's at all possible to go into most games with a defensive-first attitude if you're playing one wing of Pienaar/Baines and the other of Arteta/Coleman. And it's not as if Moyes had his strikers acting as auxiliary defensive midfielders like Dyche does. Sure, he tried his best to stay tight and compact away to the big teams, and more often than not saw us get beat and that's something he must learn from, but in general, and as his league finishes displayed, he had us performing well and in the upper echelons of the division.

Wouldn't we all take 6th place finishes for the next few years while we start to reap the benefits of the new ground and put ourselves back into a healthy position to start spending money again?

I think he needs to find a new Fellaini-type, hopefully around the same age as when we signed him (not Soucek) who has a hell of an engine on him and can be useful in both boxes. With two new signings and a smart summer of transfer activity (no choice for this as half the squad is leaving) he can easily get us finishing top half next season.

 

[CielosGrises]

It was also a crap team (compared to previous seasons of Man United) he inherited. An ageing squad that on paper, should never have won the league the season before.

If people want to give him a kicking - Sunderland is the drum to bang.

Ferguson was a tough a to follow - he still is.

 

[Marius57]

If people want to give him a kicking - Sunderland is the drum to bang.

Ferguson was a tough a to follow - he still is.

Sunderland was mad. He went for the tried and trusted route of bringing players who hadn’t really let him down. And then they all let him down. Don’t blame them, it is Sunderland.

 

[Mr Happy]

Sunderland was mad. He went for the tried and trusted route of bringing players who hadn’t really let him down. And then they all let him down. Don’t blame them, it is Sunderland.

Don't forget Sociedad and the introduction of Spanglish during his first presser. Uno, dos, three

 

[CielosGrises]

If he gets us out of this death spiral - he's done better than the 3 managers before him.

 

[bluestevon]

Aye. I also don't think it's at all possible to go into most games with a defensive-first attitude if you're playing one wing of Pienaar/Baines and the other of Arteta/Coleman. And it's not as if Moyes had his strikers acting as auxiliary defensive midfielders like Dyche does. Sure, he tried his best to stay tight and compact away to the big teams, and more often than not saw us get beat and that's something he must learn from, but in general, and as his league finishes displayed, he had us performing well and in the upper echelons of the division.

Wouldn't we all take 6th place finishes for the next few years while we start to reap the benefits of the new ground and put ourselves back into a healthy position to start spending money again?

I think he needs to find a new Fellaini-type, hopefully around the same age as when we signed him (not Soucek) who has a hell of an engine on him and can be useful in both boxes. With two new signings and a smart summer of transfer activity (no choice for this as half the squad is leaving) he can easily get us finishing top half next season.

Moyes gets badly mislabelled - judge a manager on the team he builds over time.

Moyes ALWAYS had a strong defensive re ird - in fact at Everton he never conceded as many as Dyche did last year in any of his 11 seasons, under Moyes we never conceded 50+ in any year.

At times - pretty often in fact - we played under Moyes without an outright defensive midfielder in fact, and can't ever remember us playing with two defensive Fullbacks either at the same time - yeah we often played one holding o e side going usually Hibbert and Baines being allowed to bomb on.

How did Moyes do it, cos we didn't play a low block, what we did do is his e good quality CBs who worked well together - a combo of Yobo, Jags, Lescott, Distin, Wear (think so anyways). Missing a few three too obviously

And we had a team shape were people in the middle and side knew how to drop into space when needed.

In other words we were defensively well coached as a unit.

Moyes record defensively was outstanding when you consider we had Howard for half his tine here who was a middling keeper at best imo

 

[bluestevon]

Sunderland was mad. He went for the tried and trusted route of bringing players who hadn’t really let him down. And then they all let him down. Don’t blame them, it is Sunderland.

Didnt Sunderland pretty much sell their entire defense out from under him though when he arrived

 

[phil_t98]

This is exactly it for me. I will get behind him now he's in but it feels like a missed chance to go in a new direction.

while he isn't my first choice he will steady the ship and take us up the league ready for the next manager. they type of manager we want won't come to us while we have a battle on our hands.

its an underwhelming appointment but probably the safest choice at this minute and he knows the premier league

 

[Marius57]

Moyes gets badly mislabelled - judge a manager on the team he builds over time.

Moyes ALWAYS had a strong defensive re ird - in fact at Everton he never conceded as many as Dyche did last year in any of his 11 seasons, under Moyes we never conceded 50+ in any year.

At times - pretty often in fact - we played under Moyes without an outright defensive midfielder in fact, and can't ever remember us playing with two defensive Fullbacks either at the same time - yeah we often played one holding o e side going usually Hibbert and Baines being allowed to bomb on.

How did Moyes do it, cos we didn't play a low block, what we did do is his e good quality CBs who worked well together - a combo of Yobo, Jags, Lescott, Distin, Wear (think so anyways). Missing a few three too obviously

And we had a team shape were people in the middle and side knew how to drop into space when needed.

In other words we were defensively well coached as a unit.

Moyes record defensively was outstanding when you consider we had Howard for half his tine here who was a middling keeper at best imo

Good post.

This whole defensive manager is a bit of a misnomer.

Yes, he builds from the back, but he gets teams playing some good football. And he would change approach rather than rigidly stick to plan a.

Keeping clean sheets, but still getting teams creating chances.

Let him make a couple of shrewd signings this window, and the basis of the team is already there. We have an excellent keeper and 2 CBs with a good understanding of each other that he will relish working with. There’s his base already.

I imagine he sticks with Young/Myko this season and tighten it up but can see him playing Patterson as a RW.

Hoping he uses Mangala as a holding midfielder and makes him disciplined there with a combination of garner/gueye/Tim around him. And that he jettisons Doucoure far far away.

 

[Saint Domingo]

You know sometimes when you lose a game it can just be because the opposition are better and it doesn’t always have to mean the manager is playing for a draw.

When good teams get on top of you they push you back, people keep making out like these Everton teams of the last 30 years have been so good that if only they’d chosen to go for it a bit more, or chosen to play on the front foot, or the manager had been a bit more positive, we’d have won this and that.

It’s giving the teams we’ve had an awful lot of credit by thinking that it’s only our own agency that prevented us from not ‘playing to win’. Most of what I’ve watched have been a succession of slow paced, physically weak teams, mostly stocked with defensive players, without any continuous significant investment, getting pushed back by far richer, quicker, stronger, better teams in key moments and coming up short.

Some managers recognise those limitations and get labelled dour, dithering, KITAP1, plays not to lose, sets up for a draw, other managers ignore them completely and get punted 4, 5, 6 -0 on a regular basis including derbies. However the one common denominator is no one has continuously had us ‘on the front foot’ ‘playing progressively’ ‘playing to win’.

Moyes didn’t ‘bottle’ the cup final. The best team in Europe progressively pushed back an Everton team missing its three best players down the spine. We went one nil up and then missed a chance at 1-1 to go back in front.

He didnt bottle the Firoentina game because we lost a penalty shoot out after going at them hammer and tong for 120 minutes to win it

He didn’t play for a draw when he went to the emirates, plays them off the pitch, Pienaar chips the keeper, Vaughan misses a sitter for 3-1 then Roaicky deflects in a last second strike off a loan defender playing because we’ve got so many injuries.

It’s such a simple annoying mantra that gets pedalled all the time ‘he’s bottled it lad’ ‘sat back instead of playing for the win’. I can absolutely guarantee you that the rate of any manager ‘bottling’ it would dramatically reduce the higher quality players you gave him.

Give Moyes time and money and he’ll create something good here in my opinion.

 

[Evertonthat]

while he isn't my first choice he will steady the ship and take us up the league ready for the next manager. they type of manager we want won't come to us while we have a battle on our hands.

its an underwhelming appointment but probably the safest choice at this minute and he knows the premier league

I'd agree with this. We're just not an appealing project for the sort of manager we would want to attract, particularly mid season. A Conceicau or a Terzic would not want to come in to a relegation battle. Moyes might not be an exciting appointment, but he has proven that he can take a fairly poor West Ham side up the table and even win them something. He's also a huge upgrade on Dyche in pretty much every way.

 

[Lob]

I went to pretty much every single home game during the Moyes previous tenure including the European games and i remember enjoying loads of them. We were exciting and teams where terrified of coming to Goodison. Even though he likes to be solid in defence, attack and trying to win plays a big part too and you don't end up with gaps, a million side and back passes and hoof ball. We played some really nice stuff under him and he is nothing like Dyche. He has continued being in the game and learnt a lot more since then including winning a trophy.

Granted this team is nothing like what he built back then but if we can bring him in a few players of his choosing, i see no reason why he cannot bring some excitement back to a very bored and apathetic Goodison Park again.

 

[Rooney_Tunes]

When good teams get on top of you they push you back, people keep making out like these Everton teams of the last 30 years have been so good that if only they’d chosen to go for it a bit more, or chosen to play on the front foot, or the manager had been a bit more positive, we’d have won this and that.

It’s giving the teams we’ve had an awful lot of credit by thinking that it’s only our own agency that prevented us from not ‘playing to win’. Most of what I’ve watched have been a succession of slow paced, physically weak teams, mostly stocked with defensive players, without any continuous significant investment, getting pushed back by far richer, quicker, stronger, better teams in key moments and coming up short.

Some managers recognise those limitations and get labelled dour, dithering, KITAP1, plays not to lose, sets up for a draw, other managers ignore them completely and get punted 4, 5, 6 -0 on a regular basis including derbies. However the one common denominator is no one has continuously had us ‘on the front foot’ ‘playing progressively’ ‘playing to win’.

Moyes didn’t ‘bottle’ the cup final. The best team in Europe progressively pushed back an Everton team missing its three best players down the spine. We went one nil up and then missed a chance at 1-1 to go back in front.

He didnt bottle the Firoentina game because we lost a penalty shoot out after going at them hammer and tong for 120 minutes to win it

He didn’t play for a draw when he went to the emirates, plays them off the pitch, Pienaar chips the keeper, Vaughan misses a sitter for 3-1 then Roaicky deflects in a last second strike off a loan defender playing because we’ve got so many injuries.

It’s such a simple annoying mantra that gets pedalled all the time ‘he’s bottled it lad’ ‘sat back instead of playing for the win’. I can absolutely guarantee you that the rate of any manager ‘bottling’ it would dramatically reduce the higher quality players you gave him.

Give Moyes time and money and he’ll create something good here in my opinion.

What happens if we lose 0-3 to Villa?

Apart from Dave telling everybody that "I told you so", do we shrug it off and move on?

Do we have a choice?

Probably not.

 

[bluestevon]

Good post.

This whole defensive manager is a bit of a misnomer.

Yes, he builds from the back, but he gets teams playing some good football. And he would change approach rather than rigidly stick to plan a.

Keeping clean sheets, but still getting teams creating chances.

Let him make a couple of shrewd signings this window, and the basis of the team is already there. We have an excellent keeper and 2 CBs with a good understanding of each other that he will relish working with. There’s his base already.

I imagine he sticks with Young/Myko this season and tighten it up but can see him playing Patterson as a RW.

Hoping he uses Mangala as a holding midfielder and makes him disciplined there with a combination of garner/gueye/Tim around him. And that he jettisons Doucoure far far away.

Yup he knows Pickford from Sunderland also which will help a lot.

Think Moyes will go with Garner in the DM spot actually, way more mobile than Mangala whose like molasses, Garner also way more comfortable in the side areas which means dropping in to cover say for Patterson if he's allowed to bomb forward should come way more naturally. If he dies go for that setup btw I can imagine Lindstrom playing on the right but drifting inside a lot - think of how Moyes set up on the left with Baines and Pienaar. Would shock me to see him giving Tim that spot designed to get into the box late - the Cahill type role, could be Armstrong but doubt Moyes will see him as ready yet - but a few additions needed but the fundamentals are there already in great part