Eva Carneiro leaves Chelsea

[marty mcfly]

@TheBlueGibbon
Because this is one of those instances where the manager can be wrong but she can also be wrong.

If he had of just vented at her and no one made a big deal of it including her this issue would have gone away. That's what the other doctor did and I have no doubt if it hadn't been because he doesn't want to be seen bringing one back but not them both he would be on the bench now.

Mourinho was right from the perspective of the context of the game. It was obvious Hazard was just play-acting. We all know that - we see it over and over again in other games however once the ref decided to call her on it was understandable from her perspective that she made the decision to go on. Two people can disagree on that decision and both have a case. The point is in the pressure cooker environment of the game a manager will vent and if he does she has to just shut up and take it. It's like a player mouthing off if a manager vents at him from the sidelines and then being surprised when he's dropped for the next game.

 

[tsubaki]

I'm not saying she doesn't have a case. It will actually be a very interesting one from a legal perspective but she's wrong maybe not legally but she's wrong.

 

[roydo]

@TheBlueGibbon
Because this is one of those instances where the manager can be wrong but she can also be wrong.

If he had of just vented at her and no one made a big deal of it including her this issue would have gone away. That's what the other doctor did and I have no doubt if it hadn't been because he doesn't want to be seen bringing one back but not them both he would be on the bench now.

Mourinho was right from the perspective of the context of the game. It was obvious Hazard was just play-acting. We all know that - we see it over and over again in other games however once the ref decided to call her on it was understandable from her perspective that she made the decision to go on. Two people can disagree on that decision and both have a case. The point is in the pressure cooker environment of the game a manager will vent and if he does she has to just shut up and take it. It's like a player mouthing off if a manager vents at him from the sidelines and then being surprised when he's dropped for the next game.

A medical team being called on to the pitch by the referee, regardless of the injury being real or not, means the medical team goes on to the pitch.

End of.

 

[mythbuster]

I used to like Jose, I really did. He was a novelty I suppose, because his brashness is wearing thin.

Why are we even talking about this issue? If there was any issue, or misunderstanding, then it should have been dealt with behind closed doors. Instead, we had Jose commenting to the mass media on her ability to do the job she's no doubt worked very hard to be good at. And all because, errr, she done exactly what any other trained doctor/physio would do if they thought somebody might be hurt.

Disgraceful behaviour from Jose, from the moment he opened his mouth in public about it.

 

[LinekersLegs]

Seriously?

We are talking about a game were managers send players back on to the pitch after they've had a concussion, pulled muscles or are playing with other minor or even major injuries etc
About a game were managers and players intentionally kick players to slow other players or the whole game down.
Were players break bones from other players going in too hard.
Were some players intentionally set out to hurt each other and at the end of the game give a handshake and a nod of respect (Suarez and Mirallas).

The medical profession have long being trying to establish that a players health should not be secondary to the outcome of match. There has been progress, slow but steady, but to accept Mourniho's premise that a doctor should delay/ignore treatment based on the state of the match would significantly set that back. Which is why The FIFA medical boss was so strong in his support
http://www.espnfc.us/chelsea/story/...edical-officer-supports-chelseas-eva-carneiro

And why FIFA is likely to fully back them tomorrow
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/34092354

And why all the medical associations that deal with this have made very clear statements in support
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...ourinho-over-treatment-of-Chelsea-doctor.html

Mourinho can change his medical staff around with little restriction under normal circumstances, indeed many managers have done so including our own. However to do it based on their treatment of Hazard, and in such a public and derogatory manner, brings in a much wider debate that he should have avoided.

 

[tsubaki]

A medical team being called on to the pitch by the referee, regardless of the injury being real or not, means the medical team goes on to the pitch.

End of.

Yes but I think the argument is being made on this thread that most of those medical teams are male. This was different. She was wrong.

 

[marty mcfly]

Yes but I think the argument is being made on this thread that most of those medical teams are male. This was different. She was wrong.

No the argument is being people reacted differently to the sight of seeing a young woman yelled at by an older man than they would have done if the doctor had been male.

I doubt most people even know the other guy's name and if it had of been two male doctors nothing more would have happened. They would have both reacted differently and none of us would care.

At most we would have had a chuckle at Mourinho going off on one.

 

[tsubaki]

No the argument is being people reacted differently to the sight of seeing a young woman yelled at by an older man than they would have done if the doctor had been male.

I doubt most people even know the other guy's name and if it had of been two male doctors nothing more would have happened. They would have both reacted differently and none of us would care.

At most we would have had a chuckle at Mourinho going off on one.

No, if this was a male doctor suspended for doing his job Mou would be in just as much trouble - in fact he would probably be in more trouble because the "hiring women is a risk" brigade would all be having a go at him as well.

 

[marty mcfly]

The medical profession have long being trying to establish that a players health should not be secondary to the outcome of match. There has been progress, slow but steady, but to accept Mourniho's premise that a doctor should delay/ignore treatment based on the state of the match would significantly set that back. Which is why The FIFA medical boss was so strong in his support
http://www.espnfc.us/chelsea/story/...edical-officer-supports-chelseas-eva-carneiro

And why FIFA is likely to fully back them tomorrow
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/34092354

And why all the medical associations that deal with this have made very clear statements in support
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...ourinho-over-treatment-of-Chelsea-doctor.html

Mourinho can change his medical staff around with little restriction under normal circumstances, indeed many managers have done so including our own. However to do it based on their treatment of Hazard, and in such a public and derogatory manner, brings in a much wider debate that he should have avoided.

I think you are missing the point I am making. I'm not saying Mourinho is "right" from a medical or ethical stand-point. I'm saying she was wrong in how she behaved after the fact which has lead to her being removed. Mourinho doing this publicly is his way of saying I'm the boss so pack your bags.

It's not the first time he has done it with a member of staff. Just the first time he has done it with a female member of staff.

 

[marty mcfly]

No, if this was a male doctor suspended for doing his job Mou would be in just as much trouble - in fact he would probably be in more trouble because the "hiring women is a risk" brigade would all be having a go at him as well.

Our own manager got rid of his medical team last season for "doing their job". It happens all the time.

 

[tsubaki]

Our own manager got rid of his medical team last season for "doing their job". It happens all the time.

Really, he sacked them for running on to the pitch at the request of the referee?

 

[marty mcfly]

Really, he sacked them for running on to the pitch at the request of the referee?

Not specifically but that's not what you said.

No, if this was a male doctor suspended for doing his job Mou would be in just as much trouble - in fact he would probably be in more trouble because the "hiring women is a risk" brigade would all be having a go at him as well.

 

[LinekersLegs]

No the argument is being people reacted differently to the sight of seeing a young woman yelled at by an older man than they would have done if the doctor had been male.

I doubt most people even know the other guy's name and if it had of been two male doctors nothing more would have happened. They would have both reacted differently and none of us would care.

At most we would have had a chuckle at Mourinho going off on one.

Forgive my language but those two comments are absolute bollocks.

There was a lot of media attention surrounding Guardiola's yelling at his doctor (a 70s+ male) and that doctor refused to be treated in such a publically degrading manner as well and resigned.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...orto-Pep-Guardiola-s-reign-hits-time-low.html

Managers yelling in public at their medical staff is unusuall and will get attention regardless of the age/sex of those involved. And since they are highly trained professionals it is not unusual that they will resent being castigated in the glare of the media.

 

[marty mcfly]

Forgive my language but those two comments are absolute bollocks.

There was a lot of media surrounding Guardiola's yelling at his doctor (a 70s+ male) and that doctor refused to be treated in such a publically degrading manner as well and resigned.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...orto-Pep-Guardiola-s-reign-hits-time-low.html

I remember Souness making a big deal a couple of days after the fact that she was woman and the sight of Mourinho yelling at a woman and the rest of the Sky Sports panel agreeing.

It made it worse and the Munich doctor was also a long serving member of the club.

Without using Google do you know the other guy's name?

 

[Tubey]

Forgive my language but those two comments are absolute bollocks.

Just those two? That's generous.