Everton Youth Teams Thread

[catcherintherye]

There is almost a contradiction in the way football works at youth academy level.
The top clubs can attract the best young talent or they can buy the best young academy talent. However, it is almost impossible then for young players to find a pathway through at these top clubs. The competition is too fierce and these clubs simply cannot afford to drop points in any game so they cannot take the risk with young players unless they are sure they won't cost them points.
Phil Foden at City is a good example. I think he would play regularly in most teams but is being introduced sparingly by City and he is a very talented boy.

At Everton we have been very good at bringing players through but that will probably change somewhat if we find ourselves in the top six or even top four in the next few years.

Yes that is the core contradiction. It's heightened by the short termism and money (they are linked) in English football. We are very much an end goal league, where we buy the finished product. That we have so many talented young players is a harsh irony and you can see why astute continental clubs are now aggressively targeting our youth market. This will continue.

I saw a podcast from Liverpool fans on Brewster, and one made a good point to say, the problem he has is that they are trying to blood 3 or 4 at once (currently him, Jones, the right back to a degree Elliot) and it's almost impossible to do. It's actually much easier if you just focus on 1 player and give him the opportunities.

At Everton I think you are absolutely right as well and I think we are well on our way towards that. Essentially this was Moyes's approach at the end. He was looking for the exceptional player, Rodwell then Barkley and was really not interested in anyone else. Martinez along with Unsworth changed that philosophy somewhat, and we saw a much wider range of players being given game time. I remember Unsworth banging on about wanting to keep the team together until they were 21-22 and then they'd all be ready to get int the first team as a group. Given Martinez really lacked criticality on most things, maybe that idea went unchecked for too long, but I do think it has ultimately failed as an idea.

It looks like we are starting to move away from the idea, with lots of the older young lads being moved on and loaned out and Unsworth having his wings clipped. I think overall it's for the best, and avoids a log jam. It's a different change in thinking though to say- which young player are we trying to incorporate this season. Last year this was clearly Gordon and the hope will be he can make appearances next season. Maybe the season after Simms? You sense in 2-3 years Dobbin/Onyango will be looked at. It sounds cruel though, but for the rest the likeliest best case outcome is to get them a decent club to move on to.

 

[atrottel]

Last year this was clearly Gordon and the hope will be he can make appearances next season. Maybe the season after Simms? You sense in 2-3 years Dobbin/Onyango will be looked at. It sounds cruel though, but for the rest the likeliest best case outcome is to get them a decent club to move on to.

Yes, regarding that, an odd bit in the Echo today about Lewis Warrington, who I'd never heard of, potentially taking a place freed up by the current U23 crop (Markelo, Adeniran, Baningime, Denny)...

 

[Lanolin]

Yes that is the core contradiction. It's heightened by the short termism and money (they are linked) in English football. We are very much an end goal league, where we buy the finished product. That we have so many talented young players is a harsh irony and you can see why astute continental clubs are now aggressively targeting our youth market. This will continue.

I saw a podcast from Liverpool fans on Brewster, and one made a good point to say, the problem he has is that they are trying to blood 3 or 4 at once (currently him, Jones, the right back to a degree Elliot) and it's almost impossible to do. It's actually much easier if you just focus on 1 player and give him the opportunities.

At Everton I think you are absolutely right as well and I think we are well on our way towards that. Essentially this was Moyes's approach at the end. He was looking for the exceptional player, Rodwell then Barkley and was really not interested in anyone else. Martinez along with Unsworth changed that philosophy somewhat, and we saw a much wider range of players being given game time. I remember Unsworth banging on about wanting to keep the team together until they were 21-22 and then they'd all be ready to get int the first team as a group. Given Martinez really lacked criticality on most things, maybe that idea went unchecked for too long, but I do think it has ultimately failed as an idea.

It looks like we are starting to move away from the idea, with lots of the older young lads being moved on and loaned out and Unsworth having his wings clipped. I think overall it's for the best, and avoids a log jam. It's a different change in thinking though to say- which young player are we trying to incorporate this season. Last year this was clearly Gordon and the hope will be he can make appearances next season. Maybe the season after Simms? You sense in 2-3 years Dobbin/Onyango will be looked at. It sounds cruel though, but for the rest the likeliest best case outcome is to get them a decent club to move on to.

I'd disagree completely with that part. Moyes utilised youth players much, much more than Martinez did. Martinez gave people more time in the side maybe, but which players from our youth team did he give PL debuts to? I'm struggling to think of any. Under Moyes it was common for the bench to have 2/3 youth teamers on it. The likes of McAleny, Agard, Chadwick, Baxter, Duffy etc used to be in and around the squad and get run outs. Martinez never really did that at all, he used the likes of Barkley and Stones much more than Moyes, but they were the very definition of exceptional players.

 

[jonnyboy316]

Anyone Confident that Gordon can make the step up?

 

[Raino85]

Yes that is the core contradiction. It's heightened by the short termism and money (they are linked) in English football. We are very much an end goal league, where we buy the finished product. That we have so many talented young players is a harsh irony and you can see why astute continental clubs are now aggressively targeting our youth market. This will continue.

I saw a podcast from Liverpool fans on Brewster, and one made a good point to say, the problem he has is that they are trying to blood 3 or 4 at once (currently him, Jones, the right back to a degree Elliot) and it's almost impossible to do. It's actually much easier if you just focus on 1 player and give him the opportunities.

At Everton I think you are absolutely right as well and I think we are well on our way towards that. Essentially this was Moyes's approach at the end. He was looking for the exceptional player, Rodwell then Barkley and was really not interested in anyone else. Martinez along with Unsworth changed that philosophy somewhat, and we saw a much wider range of players being given game time. I remember Unsworth banging on about wanting to keep the team together until they were 21-22 and then they'd all be ready to get int the first team as a group. Given Martinez really lacked criticality on most things, maybe that idea went unchecked for too long, but I do think it has ultimately failed as an idea.

It looks like we are starting to move away from the idea, with lots of the older young lads being moved on and loaned out and Unsworth having his wings clipped. I think overall it's for the best, and avoids a log jam. It's a different change in thinking though to say- which young player are we trying to incorporate this season. Last year this was clearly Gordon and the hope will be he can make appearances next season. Maybe the season after Simms? You sense in 2-3 years Dobbin/Onyango will be looked at. It sounds cruel though, but for the rest the likeliest best case outcome is to get them a decent club to move on to.

Interesting your point about the exceptional player.
I think that is probably the way to go!
Under Moyes a new youth player came in maybe every 2-3 years, and pretty much was in the swuad week in week out after that (that was probably a result of 0 money aloud to be spent more than a tactic though)
If you go back the past 30 years, i can only think of Fergies United & O'Learys Leeds were more than 2 players from the youth team played for a competitibve top flight club.
I think the strategy should defiantly be along the lines of identifying the exceptional and priming them for our first team, while unfortunately you have to use the rest as a way of making income!

 

[Raino85]

That is true.
I once knew somebody who spent time at Tranmere and he felt that he was unlucky because the manager promoted others but not him.
He felt the manager didn't like him, the truth is the manager probably thought he wouldn't make it.

I think we very rarely see players come back and prove the academy coaches wrong.
Some players that have left us have gone on to have good careers but at the moment I can't think of a single player that I would like to bring back.

Lad called Perry Taylor was one of the best lads i've ever seen at 16.
Aldridge absolutely nailed him! Purely as him and his son played the same position.
Went to the extent of sending players out to 'do' him in training sessions

 

[Lanolin]

Interesting your point about the exceptional player.
I think that is probably the way to go!
Under Moyes a new youth player came in maybe every 2-3 years, and pretty much was in the swuad week in week out after that (that was probably a result of 0 money aloud to be spent more than a tactic though)
If you go back the past 30 years, i can only think of Fergies United & O'Learys Leeds were more than 2 players from the youth team played for a competitibve top flight club.
I think the strategy should defiantly be along the lines of identifying the exceptional and priming them for our first team, while unfortunately you have to use the rest as a way of making income!

I think the idea of looking for exceptional talents is one that's pretty well established in youth teams, but a lot of fans don't realise/like it. I've said before, it explains why certain decisions are made at youth level which people grumble about. If you have a player who you believe is exceptional, it's not unusual to try to set up the team in a way which will help them develop, rather than picking the 'best' players, or the youngest.

I used to be heavily involved in cricket coaching at a high level; if our best prospect was a really quick but erratic bowler then you might put a couple of other lads in who you knew you could rely on to tie up an end to mitigate the runs you'd leak. You might also pick someone for their captaincy skills so that your fields were right for him. Not everything, but much of your plan was about maximising that lad's chances of going all the way. I know the same thing applies in football, it's why you might find an unspectacular but disciplined midfielder gets kept on until they're 22 or whatever, so that they act as a minder for a more dynamic player next to them, or a vocal carthorse centre half gets picked, because you think they'll get the best out of their talented but raw partner.

You'll never have a youth team where every player is a potential PL player, it just doesn't happen. The key is getting the most out of the ones that are.

 

[blueblue]

Lad called Perry Taylor was one of the best lads i've ever seen at 16.
Aldridge absolutely nailed him! Purely as him and his son played the same position.
Went to the extent of sending players out to 'do' him in training sessions

The lad I knew was the victim of Aldridge as well.

 

[blueblue]

Clubs in the lower leagues have almost become hatcheries for Premiership clubs now where the best of the young talent is brought through at the academy of the lower league club and then taken to the Premiership club aged 16,17 or 18.

Their football education is finished at the Premiership club and they will make the grade or at least have a resale value.

 

[blueloon]

Yes, regarding that, an odd bit in the Echo today about Lewis Warrington, who I'd never heard of, potentially taking a place freed up by the current U23 crop (Markelo, Adeniran, Baningime, Denny)...

Yeah Lewis Warrington is one of the brightest prospects of our 1st year Scholars, good enough to get a pro contract really before he’d made a big mark at u18s , though he’s been injured and I don’think has played this year . He was distinctive with a wild mop of hair when he played, but that may have changed! If you search back three or four years he scored a great goal at whatever level he was playing at and it was featured in the end of season awards video.
Looks a talented disciplined attacking midfielder , but I seem to remember he was also played wide as part of a three with Dobbin and Cannon .
I think the biggest measure is that our coaches rewarded him with a contract as soon as he was 17, very few 1st years get that , Astley last season , Dobbin and Onyango this season , i may have missed someone , but that’s the talent he’s rated with by the coaches. Another one who played up for the u18s as aSchoolboy last season, a good measure of ability and what coaches think.

 

[mightymoyes]

Promising player who apparently left because wasn't happy with pathway

A year after Everton departure, forward becomes youngest player in French history to sign pro deal - Sport Witness

The name Mohamed-Ali Cho is unlikely to mean much to Everton fans, save the ones who religiously follow the youth sectors at the club. At 16-years-old and having come nowhere near the first-team picture, never mind the Under 21s, few will know much of the youngster who departed the club last...

sportwitness.co.uk

 

[kempo]

This is the dilemma for young players. When you fall it's very hard to stop this. Most clubs below the championship tend to operate on 1-2 year deals. Look at most players at that level and it's up rooting your family every year or 2 to move to a new place. In some ways it's quite exciting but must be quite challenging, especially as most of these lads will not be on fortunes (maybe a grand a week basic with bonuses attached).

It sounds odd, but posy about 18 most players values in a lot of ways start to drop. The longer you hang around at a PL side not playing the less marketable you are. I'd always say, to every teenager now, don't listen to the guff of the club, consider have they got a plan to play you, and if they haven't go somewhere to a team that will give you that chance.

But yes, once you start falling it's hard to put the breaks on it. I see lots of lads who were very good for our under 18's (I always think of Michael Donuhue) he's 21 and played a handful of games on loan for FC United. Signed for them in January but doesn't look to have played much this season.

Every PL academy has maybe 10 or 15 lads it gives pro deals to each year. Thats a first 11 ever year, from every club. There are 72 other pro clubs in the system. So within about 3 years the PL clubs produce enough scholars to have filled every starting place in the football pyramid below the PL. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out there aren't enough places for them all,or frankly even for most of them who get pro terms at 16/17.

My local team Newport County have a lot of players who are on 1 to 2 year contracts, the majority tend to house share with 3 or 4 other players rather than move there family to Newport area, they then tend to go home after weekend games for a few days .

 

[catcherintherye]

Promising player who apparently left because wasn't happy with pathway

A year after Everton departure, forward becomes youngest player in French history to sign pro deal - Sport Witness

The name Mohamed-Ali Cho is unlikely to mean much to Everton fans, save the ones who religiously follow the youth sectors at the club. At 16-years-old and having come nowhere near the first-team picture, never mind the Under 21s, few will know much of the youngster who departed the club last...

sportwitness.co.uk

Was well thought of Cho, along with Kouyate in that age group. It's a shame we lost him, but lots of talented players in our under 16s, and suspect we felt Kouyate and Dobbin better prospects.

 

[Eggs]

....I like Lewis Dobbin lots. Every now and then you see a player who just looks right and Dobbin falls into that category. Uncomplicated and effective, he’s one I’m looking forward to watching in the next few years.

 

[Pob The Pole]

Lad called Perry Taylor was one of the best lads i've ever seen at 16.
Aldridge absolutely nailed him! Purely as him and his son played the same position.
Went to the extent of sending players out to 'do' him in training sessions

My Bro played with him. He was about 6-3 as a 13 year old. Good player but think that size advantage left as others caught up. In all the England youth sides wasn’t he?!