Everton Youth Teams Thread

[chazzle_dazzle]

David Moyes was on the radio recently saying how he liked the Spanish B side concept but being realistic in saying that it would never happen in England because it would never be accepted by the non-Premier clubs and their supporters. He wasn't bemoaning the fact , just stating the obvious.
One problem with assessing the loan system's merits is that roughly 90% will be English academy products . We know that if we are lucky we get one or two into the PL squad per year , and if you were to take into account all PL teams not many established players could be said to have benifitted from the loan system . Harry Kane is the obvious one, Ross got experience but views vary as to how much his loans benefitted him. But it goes back to my earlier point very few academy products are making it through anyway at PL level when it's just so easy to either buy in a foreigner or a talented English player developed by someone else at a lower level, like Stones, Galloway, Deli Ali.
So while the loan system has its faults, there are also other significant factors in play which don't help in developing our young talent, like money available to buy in experienced players and lack of patience in the bigger clubs to give their youngsters time to develop. We were willing to pay £4mill for the 22 year old RB Sam Byram, now I don't know what he was like at 18, but there's a good chance that the 18 year old Jonjoe Kenny will be equally as good at 22 and save us a lot of money ..... if we have the patience to allow him to develop.

Harry Kane had very little success on loan, and i remember people thinking he was utter shoite at the time. Appearances and goals below

2011 → Leyton Orient (loan) 18 (5)
2012 → Millwall (loan) 22 (7)
2012–2013 → Norwich City (loan) 3 (0)
2013 → Leicester City (loan) 13 (2)

I think the loan system has a good place in making the lads into men when it comes into realising they aren't born with a silver spoon and if they want to make it they have to get their head down and work hard. Ross didn't have a great time of it on loan, but probably grew up having grocs and journey men play against him.

The only problem i have with the loan system is if the clubs don't have the same outlook and mentality as the club the player comes from, it could be detrimental to how they develop.

 

[atrottel]

I do feel that city are heading for a major problem with regards to their academy, on sky this morning it said that Utd have had 15 academy players have made their debut for the 1st team in the last 4yrs, not sure what city's is but I bet it's nowhere that number, if you were a young player with a decision to make looking at those statistics I know which I'd choose, That 200m academy has to start paying it's way soon

It's also interesting because it's the kind of age where all those advantages like private schools start becoming less important.

 

[Pabbers]

I do feel that city are heading for a major problem with regards to their academy, on sky this morning it said that Utd have had 15 academy players have made their debut for the 1st team in the last 4yrs, not sure what city's is but I bet it's nowhere that number, if you were a young player with a decision to make looking at those statistics I know which I'd choose, That 200m academy has to start paying it's way soon

Well they sold 2 players for combined £15 million in the summer from that academy, its as much a revenue stream as it is to produce players for the City first team.

 

[boris]

City didn't offer Hilton another contract even though they are short in that department so surprising we Have got him In

They'll be lining someone up,

I do feel that city are heading for a major problem with regards to their academy, on sky this morning it said that Utd have had 15 academy players have made their debut for the 1st team in the last 4yrs, not sure what city's is but I bet it's nowhere that number, if you were a young player with a decision to make looking at those statistics I know which I'd choose, That 200m academy has to start paying it's way soon

I mentioned this earlier in the thread when United's academy was getting criticised.

They churn out footballers, they may not all make it at United but the leagues are full of ex players from there, no one else comes close. They know exactly what they are doing.

They make individuals, and lots of them. They are not there not bothered about building youth teams.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Excellent from Dowell there it looks like and he has fully recovered from his injury he simply has to make his league debut before the end of the season instead of giving Osman ten minutes.

 

[Zatara]

The City youth team at under 16's is frightening to be honest. We are competitive with them at under 18's and over the past 2 or 3 years have probably outdone them, but thats down to a having a very strong youth team.

They are miles ahead of us and just about everyone else at under 16's/15's. It is quite frightening really, but even ourselves, United & Liverpool who are all big clubs in the North West are a very long way behind.

What i dont really understand is that Galloway moved up and so it seemed we signed Foulds due to this to come in at the younger age group....perfect.

We also seem to sign at least one 16 year old keeper every year and now have like 6 of them for 2 squads.

I know this method failed with liverpool as they did it en masse but why would we not take more George Green type punts? There must be quite a lot of players around the england youth setups at lower level clubs who we could be in for....?

Surely if we need a keeper for example then rather than signing this kid from city we should see who the vwry best kid is in england and make a cash bid for him...do this a few times and one will make it worthwhile.

 

[Zatara]

Well they sold 2 players for combined £15 million in the summer from that academy, its as much a revenue stream as it is to produce players for the City first team.

Really ? Who were they?

That young forward also seems pretty good whose just come through.

I would say we should be a better bet than city though as players get games with us....i suppose money and private education VS football is the decision.

Byrne off Utd and this kid off City when both werent offered new deals isnt very inspiring.. i think we should be going for more deals like foulds.

 

[Coffee and TV]

Dowell played as a number 10 last night, I wonder if that's the role we want to bring him through in.

 

[Pabbers]

Really ? Who were they?

That young forward also seems pretty good whose just come through.

I would say we should be a better bet than city though as players get games with us....i suppose money and private education VS football is the decision.

Byrne off Utd and this kid off City when both werent offered new deals isnt very inspiring.. i think we should be going for more deals like foulds.

Rekik and Boyata and Rony Lopez.

The level of coaching City are giving kids is way above most clubs, and they are loaning players out to really good European clubs, while we send ours to Oxford and Barrow!!

Young players will see City as a great gateway to Football, its not just about becoming a City player.

 

[chazzle_dazzle]

Denis Suarez and Rony Lopez.

The level of coaching City are giving kids is way above most clubs, and they are loaning players out to really good European clubs, while we send ours to Oxford and Barrow!!

Young players will see City as a great gateway to Football, its not just about becoming a City player.

They seem to have some good prospects, i remember seeing Denis Suarez once and thought he was going to be an immense player.

But like you say, what they have on offer and the opportunities in Europe - they see it as a route into the game, rather then a route to City's first team

 

[Pabbers]

They seem to have some good prospects, i remember seeing Denis Suarez once and thought he was going to be an immense player.

But like you say, what they have on offer and the opportunities in Europe - they see it as a route into the game, rather then a route to City's first team

This is a massive point that people forget, this is the case for ALL premier league players. The Ultimate goal would be to succeed at that clubs, sure. But becoming a pro player at any level ish, is still a big success.

Man United have more ex academy players in the English League's than any other team.

Even playing league 2 IS a success, and a great career.

 

[chazzle_dazzle]

Rekik and Boyata and Rony Lopez.

The level of coaching City are giving kids is way above most clubs, and they are loaning players out to really good European clubs, while we send ours to Oxford and Barrow!!

Young players will see City as a great gateway to Football, its not just about becoming a City player.

Probably one more point on this, i don't know why i expected it but i did - when we appointed Martinez i thought we would get a little foothold with European clubs to send some players out on loan.

Stupid really when he is the most English Spanish person ever.

 

[boris]

Rekik and Boyata and Rony Lopez.

The level of coaching City are giving kids is way above most clubs

I disagree regarding the coaching, the level of coaching they get at all the grade 1 academies now is outstanding. Ive' banged the City drum a few times in this thread and it's very succeful but not due to the quality of the coaching more due to the money they are spending on there players even at kid level.

I know a lot of the coaches at City but for me your child is best developed at another club not City as they are about developing teams, not individuals. For example at the lower age groups they sign the best players from clubs, paying money so they are bound to be succeesful but at that age it doesn't matter. They're pigeon holing these kids, building teams, setting structures and have the kids passing the ball to death at City at ages 9 and 10 whilst clubs like Spurs and United have them trying to win there indiviual battles, developing there own individual talents as they believe they can teach them structure and passing later on as it's much easier to do. Liverpool are also going that way now whilst we are a mixture of both.

For me City don't care about developing players really, they just want to be the best now at every age group.

I also know of other top young 15/ 16 year olds who are also about to walk out on City but I don't want to name them in this thread yet as it hasn't happened yet, but it will do and I'll bump this when they do.

 

[atrottel]

Liverpool are also going that way now whilst we are a mixture of both.

I noticed you mention this before. How do you think we are a mixture (in other words, what are we taking and leaving from each approach) and do you think it works well for us and the youth players or should we be going one way or another?

 

[Pabbers]

I disagree regarding the coaching, the level of coaching they get at all the grade 1 academies now is outstanding. Ive' banged the City drum a few times in this thread and it's very succeful but not due to the quality of the coaching more due to the money they are spending on there players even at kid level.

I know a lot of the coaches at City but for me your child is best developed at another club not City as they are about developing teams, not individuals. For example at the lower age groups they sign the best players from clubs, paying money so they are bound to be succeesful but at that age it doesn't matter. They're pigeon holing these kids, building teams, setting structures and have the kids passing the ball to death at City at ages 9 and 10 whilst clubs like Spurs and United have them trying to win there indiviual battles, developing there own individual talents as they believe they can teach them structure and passing later on as it's much easier to do. Liverpool are also going that way now whilst we are a mixture of both.

For me City don't care about developing players really, they just want to be the best now at every age group.

I also know of other top young 15/ 16 year olds who are also about to walk out on City but I don't want to name them in this thread yet as it hasn't happened yet, but it will do and I'll bump this when they do.

Nice one for the info mate.

I really think City are using it as an Income stream, pay fee's for kids, make them better....sell them on for big profit.