Farhad Moshiri

[The Esk]

Forgive me mate, but the notion that a feller like Moshiri, given the clients he's dealt with in the past, would have a moral aversion to paying agents' fees is a bit of a stretch.

Not everyone who has operated in Asia or the former Soviet States is corrupt.

Additionally it is (even if they so desired) increasingly difficult for clubs to operate in a manner in which they may have done in the past. There's also legislation which now makes companies liable for the actions of their employees (2010 Bribery Act). Therefore I'd be extremely surprised if Everton or its employees were involved in such.

I suspect the problem today lies with agents and what they do with their fees rather than the club's themselves.

My earlier point about Everton not just rolling over on agents fees suggests they are aware of the potential for wrong doing and are not prepared to allow it to happen within their control.

 

[Old Blue 2]

There's also legislation which now makes companies liable for the actions of their employees (2010 Bribery Act).

I thought that was always covered, Esk, under the legal definition of 'Vicarious liability'...

 

[MartyMcFly]

Not everyone who has operated in Asia or the former Soviet States is corrupt.

Additionally it is (even if they so desired) increasingly difficult for clubs to operate in a manner in which they may have done in the past. There's also legislation which now makes companies liable for the actions of their employees (2010 Bribery Act). Therefore I'd be extremely surprised if Everton or its employees were involved in such.

I suspect the problem today lies with agents and what they do with their fees rather than the club's themselves.

My earlier point about Everton not just rolling over on agents fees suggests they are aware of the potential for wrong doing and are not prepared to allow it to happen within their control.

That's the problem in a nutshell with cheating. If you don't do it you are at a huge disadvantage yet if you do you are morally wrong. It's a no win situation.

 

[The Esk]

I thought that was always covered, Esk, under the legal definition of 'Vicarious liability'...

Whilst that's true it has been explained to me that the scope and penalties associated with the Bribery Act is much greater. I'm not a lawyer but the expectation is that there is the potential for prosecutions under Section 7 of the Bribery Act if charges are brought following the Telegraph allegations.

 

[The Esk]

That's the problem in a nutshell with cheating. If you don't do it you are at a huge disadvantage yet if you do you are morally wrong. It's a no win situation.

I disagree totally. If you make it clear to people you don't cheat you put yourself at an enormous advantage to those that do. I say that with over 25 years commercial experience of emerging markets.

 

[davek]

Not everyone who has operated in Asia or the former Soviet States is corrupt.

Additionally it is (even if they so desired) increasingly difficult for clubs to operate in a manner in which they may have done in the past. There's also legislation which now makes companies liable for the actions of their employees (2010 Bribery Act). Therefore I'd be extremely surprised if Everton or its employees were involved in such.

I suspect the problem today lies with agents and what they do with their fees rather than the club's themselves.

My earlier point about Everton not just rolling over on agents fees suggests they are aware of the potential for wrong doing and are not prepared to allow it to happen within their control.

I'm not saying Moshiri is corrupt, btw. But the likes of Usminov and co. relied on what might be termed *cough* "primitive accumulation" to build up their empires. And I cant realistically see Moshiri (or any other owner) giving a flying fig about what agents do with the cash they're handed from them. If the club stays within the rules, that would be that I'm guessing.

 

[MartyMcFly]

I disagree totally. If you make it clear to people you don't cheat you put yourself at an enormous advantage to those that do. I say that with over 25 years commercial experience of emerging markets.

Tell that to every Olympic athlete who has had to stand and watch as a drug cheat takes the gold.

 

[The Esk]

I'm not saying Moshiri is corrupt, btw. But the likes of Usminov and co. relied on what might be termed *cough* "primitive accumulation" to build up their empires.

I'm not defending Usmanov in the slightest and I don't have any details to suggest he originally acquired assets any differently from other oligarchs. However I would say his (USM's) approach has been untypical of other oligarchs in that he has utilised cash generated by his investments to invest in many areas outside of the former Soviet Union and resource based businesses.

 

[The Esk]

Tell that to every Olympic athlete who has had to stand and watch as a drug cheat takes the gold.

I can't comment about them mate. I'm talking about business not sport. In business your reputation for honest dealing will always buy more than any bribe.

 

[MartyMcFly]

I can't comment about them mate. I'm talking about business not sport. In business your reputation for honest dealing will always buy more than any bribe.

Fair enough.

 

[davek]

I'm not defending Usmanov in the slightest and I don't have any details to suggest he originally acquired assets any differently from other oligarchs. However I would say his (USM's) approach has been untypical of other oligarchs in that he has utilised cash generated by his investments to invest in many areas outside of the former Soviet Union and resource based businesses.

Oh yeah, absolutely. And that's where Moshiri comes in.

Just saying: the "original sin" as it were by ALL oligarchs is that they ripped off their region's natural resources before any sort of collective control over it could be made (and many of them weren't shy of using a lot of muscle to make sure they got what they wanted).

 

[Toffeelover]

I'm not saying Moshiri is corrupt, btw. But the likes of Usminov and co. relied on what might be termed *cough* "primitive accumulation" to build up their empires. And I cant realistically see Moshiri (or any other owner) giving a flying fig about what agents do with the cash they're handed from them. If the club stays within the rules, that would be that I'm guessing.

Dave many got rich on the back of the Russian mineral boom , you did not mention Abromovich! for one. Btw many of these would not have been successful but for their close relationship with Vladimir. Some were not so lucky nad ended up in nick.

AS for the passing of cash, clubs have a duty to be mindful of the regulations as to how it effects them underhand payments are not acceptable. just staying within rules as you say does not absolve them of a duty.

 

[ToffeeTim]

Farhad TOSHiri

 

[bizzaro]

Whilst that's true it has been explained to me that the scope and penalties associated with the Bribery Act is much greater. I'm not a lawyer but the expectation is that there is the potential for prosecutions under Section 7 of the Bribery Act if charges are brought following the Telegraph allegations.

The Bribery Act also has extra-territorial jurisdiction.

It matters not, where the act occurs. It can occur in Russia, Africa, USA or anywhere. The only provision - it involves natural or legal persons under the UK legal definitions.

In many respects it mirrors US law in this regard.

 

[Titus Bramble]

Farhad TOSHiri

I see what you did there