Hilary Benn Sacked From The Shadow Cabinet - wider political debate

[tsubaki]

Yes it makes him very popular among Labour's core support. Every poll and every indication possible points to it making him worryingly unpopular in huge areas of the country.

Which just returns us to the absurdity of some people in this country - who are prepared to believe the media even after years of evidence of what they are actually up to, and oppose someone who doesn't take part in the sort of political bubble nonsense that everyone professes to hate.

Perhaps we do get the rulers we deserve.

 

[Pienaar's gloves]

Which just returns us to the absurdity of some people in this country - who are prepared to believe the media even after years of evidence of what they are actually up to, and oppose someone who doesn't take part in the sort of political bubble nonsense that everyone professes to hate.

Perhaps we do get the rulers we deserve.

Definitely.

One brilliantly stupid thing is how we value and define patriotic.

Dodge tax your entire life but place the National Health Service in peril and you can be a patriot.

Defend the rank and file of this country from austerity and you're a fruit loop Soviet.

 

[Milkman]

Yes it makes him very popular among Labour's core support. Every poll and every indication possible points to it making him worryingly unpopular in huge areas of the country.

Of course it does. They're the people that get the bullet point headlines from the press – 'Corbyn is unelectable', 'loony lefties', 'abolish the army' – all that kind of nonsense that's just so depressing. The saddest thing is that when people read the Sun or the Mail and believe that those gobshites are standing up for them, but they're being completely manipulated. It's pure evil.

 

[Joey66]

He won.

As you keep pointing out in the Brexit thread that Leave won (to counter any argument you can't engage with), it's a bit hypocritical to moan about a man being on the ballot paper when he had the support of 60%+ members of the Labour Party.

yes how about a rerun just with the PLP?
vote of no confidence 80%
the party is a joke now its destroying itself in front of your eyes and you can not see it imo!

 

[Mountfield1985]

Which just returns us to the absurdity of some people in this country - who are prepared to believe the media even after years of evidence of what they are actually up to, and oppose someone who doesn't take part in the sort of political bubble nonsense that everyone professes to hate.

Perhaps we do get the rulers we deserve.

Haha true, but we won't get anywhere telling the electorate how thick they are.

And a big part of the reason the general public don't trust Corbyn is this perception that he would be terrible for the economy. That one you can blame entirely on New Labour. The biggest mistake they ever made was allowing the narrative around the financial crash to be that it was caused by their own overspending. They did this to chase a few middle class votes, and it is probably the biggest own goal they've scored in the last decade. There's only one thing the public will eat up more than the tories pointing fingers at labour, and that is labour pointing fingers labour. Even this weekend I saw Andrew Marr grilling JC about "are you going to lower public spending given that it caused the crash." Corbyn rightly looks bemused and says no, that was caused by deregulated banking systems. Marr basically says "well yes educated people know that, but Joe Public doesn't so aren't you going to lower public spending?". The myth, even though it's been exposed as a myth, has become the common logic. What chance does he stand?

 

[Joey66]

Of course it does. They're the people that get the bullet point headlines from the press – 'Corbyn is unelectable', 'loony lefties', 'abolish the army' – all that kind of nonsense that's just so depressing. The saddest thing is that when people read the Sun or the Mail and believe that those gobshites are standing up for them, but they're being completely manipulated. It's pure evil.

Citizen Smith would have had more of a chance in the Tooting popular front lol alias Momentum!

 

[Mountfield1985]

Of course it does. They're the people that get the bullet point headlines from the press – 'Corbyn is unelectable', 'loony lefties', 'abolish the army' – all that kind of nonsense that's just so depressing. The saddest thing is that when people read the Sun or the Mail and believe that those gobshites are standing up for them, but they're being completely manipulated. It's pure evil.

That's what I mean when I talk about playing the game. JC has a lot of policies that could appeal to those people, but by pursuing things like scrapping trident, it turns people off to him in their millions. Pick your battles.

 

[Pienaar's gloves]

yes how about a rerun just with the PLP?
vote of no confidence 80%
the party is a joke now its destroying itself in front of your eyes and you can not see it imo!

Worst person here to debate with because you just swivel the point away.

 

[Joey66]

Worst person here to debate with because you just swivel the point away.

Thats what politicians do!
Look voted Labour all my life been in 2 trade unions - one boss told me I was the most militant worker he had , but I was justly right to stand up to him and won via my union - the country needs a strong opposition to this lot, and one who will displace them -
lets see hey you may be right I may be wrong we at least support the right football team

 

[Tubey]

This is the oft-repeated trope that keeps being come up with, but please look how actually correct it is.

Corbyn won because, in the two leadership elections he faced, he was the one most likely to win a general election out of all the candidates in those elections. Even if you expand the field to encompass the self-described "big beasts" in the Labour establishment, he would still probably have more chance of winning than any of them (which is why they did not stand, either the first or second time).

The idea that there is a viable alternative for Labour to turn to right now is daft; there is either taking a gamble on Corbyn (who for all his faults has at least boosted Party membership and engagement, and promoted debates on actual policy) or surrendering to the evident failures that are the Progress faction in the PLP (who, lets not forget, lost the last two elections, who lost Scotland, who would probably lose Wales next, who cut party membership in half, who built up huge debts and who ran the party into the state whereby Corbyn could win a leadership election in it).

lol

 

[tsubaki]

Haha true, but we won't get anywhere telling the electorate how thick they are.

And a big part of the reason the general public don't trust Corbyn is this perception that he would be terrible for the economy. That one you can blame entirely on New Labour. The biggest mistake they ever made was allowing the narrative around the financial crash to be that it was caused by their own overspending. They did this to chase a few middle class votes, and it is probably the biggest own goal they've scored in the last decade. There's only one thing the public will eat up more than the tories pointing fingers at labour, and that is labour pointing fingers labour. Even this weekend I saw Andrew Marr grilling JC about "are you going to lower public spending given that it caused the crash." Corbyn rightly looks bemused and says no, that was caused by deregulated banking systems. Marr basically says "well yes educated people know that, but Joe Public doesn't so aren't you going to lower public spending?". The myth, even though it's been exposed as a myth, has become the common logic. What chance does he stand?

I think New Labour had to buy into that argument because the truth - that most of their higher spending had in fact gone to big business, and that they turned a blind eye to what they were doing - was far less palatable than the "we caused the crash because we spent too much" theory, which at least allowed them to appear generous (though of course it wasn't their money) and they could argue against it.

I do cringe when I see Corbyn and McDonnell talk about higher spending, though. From now until the next election they should just highlight the absurd, politically-driven waste that infests the budget - Hinkley C being a superb example, but also PFI generally, the IEP contract for the new trains (£700,000 a day in subsidy even if they aren't running), most contracts etc. Even fracking can be gone after on the grounds that it makes no sense at all to frack when gas prices are so low, and that we would be investing in our childrens / grandchildrens future if we left it in the ground.

 

[tsubaki]

lol

Well at least you aren't editing quotes to make them appear worse.

 

[Pienaar's gloves]

Thats what politicians do!
Look voted Labour all my life been in 2 trade unions - one boss told me I was the most militant worker he had , but I was justly right to stand up to him and won via my union - the country needs a strong opposition to this lot, and one who will displace them -
lets see hey you may be right I may be wrong we at least support the right football team

And yet here we are with a socialist to back and you're missing the opportunity!

 

[Joey66]

And yet here we are with a socialist to back and you're missing the opportunity!

A blue house brick with a rosette would get in in my area, but you to make Tories vote Labour to get in the boundary changes will stuff them even more you need PR voting for it to be fair anyway!

 

[peteblue]

News thump......

Labour Party going tremendously well now.

Reports from the Labour Party conference indicate that it’s all going splendidly and there’s nothing to worry about anymore.

MPs who supported a no-confidence motion in Jeremy Corbyn mere weeks ago have given a merry laugh and cheerfully acknowledged the error of their ways, indicating that they’re ‘very relaxed’ about their conference speeches being rewritten at the last minute by members of his staff.

Meanwhile, members of the leader’s team have told us that the feeling is one of ‘all chums together’ and everyone should forget those silly things they said about deselection in the heat of the moment.

Fringe meetings are understood to be harmonious examples of team play, with the various factions respectfully agreeing to differ over minor points of doctrine for the greater good.

And nobody is even mentioning the Jews anymore.

“We’re all pulling together now and taking the fight to the Tories,” we were told in a delightfully cheerful and upbeat soiree at the Conference bar.

“It’s incredible how the recent leadership contest solved all our problems and really helped the party gel.

“And if anyone doesn’t like it they can go and JOIN THE TORIES.

“Oops, damn, I only meant to think that bit.”

When asked how many Jeremy Corbyn supporters it would take to change a lightbulb, we were told that if everyone just stops complaining about the dark and gets behind the bulb, it won’t need changing.