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Hilary Benn Sacked From The Shadow Cabinet - wider political debate

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Toffeelover said:
So UKIP were offering those folk what Labour were not. So if they preferred UKIP what were that core support looking for? And are Labour offering it now?
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Labour didn't go canvassing it's core voters, it didn't speak to them so didn't listen. there was a void.

as for wether they are offering it now, only an election could answer that, but something they are offering is striking a chord wouldn't you say?
 
Mountfield1985 said:
It absolutely is if you want to be elected primeminister. There is no way of getting around that. He and McDonnell have to be more media savvy to be taken seriously. For example, yes we know Esther McVey is a stain on humanity, but you can't *literally* go around calling fellow politicians "stains on humanity" like McDonnell did.

Without wanting to turn the argument to Brexit (and i'm by no means blaming it on JC) - But "playing the game" would have been passionately backing Labours stance to remain, not eye-rolling his way through the whole campaign. He lost a lot of respect from a lot of people there. I know you will say unfairly so, but it has happened nontheless.

I agree with most of your post. JC is a good man and he does get a horrendous time of it.

But a lot of Corbyn supporters have complete tunnel vision and are refusing to accept he can do any wrong whatsoever. After the year Labour has had, and given that he will most likely be leading us into the next GE, I think it is only right that we demand much more from our party leader.
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It goes two ways. Angela eagle, she of the phantom brick and challenge pub in wallasey, commended Corbyn on his campaigning only a few days before the vote and said that the media was downplaying his role and commitment. 10 days later she wanted shut... I would suggest the 'eye rolling' is being a bit miffed at the misrepresentation.

With tunnel vision, isn't the opposite stance, i.e. the entire media from the Times, BBC, Sky, ITV and every paper I've seen, guilty of the same by continually looking for the most stupid of reasons to heap some kind of fear onto Corbyn, It hasn't been a level playing field at all and until it is the man has to be given a fair chance.

as for McVey, I think it's refreshing to hear that, mainly because, imho, it would stand up in court ;)
 
tsubaki said:
This is the oft-repeated trope that keeps being come up with, but please look how actually correct it is.

Corbyn won because, in the two leadership elections he faced, he was the one most likely to win a general election out of all the candidates in those elections. Even if you expand the field to encompass the self-described "big beasts" in the Labour establishment, he would still probably have more chance of winning than any of them (which is why they did not stand, either the first or second time).

The idea that there is a viable alternative for Labour to turn to right now is daft; there is either taking a gamble on Corbyn (who for all his faults has at least boosted Party membership and engagement, and promoted debates on actual policy) or surrendering to the evident failures that are the Progress faction in the PLP (who, lets not forget, lost the last two elections, who lost Scotland, who would probably lose Wales next, who cut party membership in half, who built up huge debts and who ran the party into the state whereby Corbyn could win a leadership election in it).
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Corbyn will never win a general election

Vault me
 

magicjuan said:
Labour didn't go canvassing it's core voters, it didn't speak to them so didn't listen. there was a void.

as for wether they are offering it now, only an election could answer that, but something they are offering is striking a chord wouldn't you say?
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Nope. Unless you mean an incredibly narrow, barely audible chord.
 

magicjuan said:
this 'barely audible chord' that has been on the front pages of every paper, mainly headline news in the media, since, let's say June for arguments sake... and keeps growing....
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Extremism tends to get attention. If you went by newspaper headlines, Nigel Farage would now be PM by a landslide, or the BNP would be in charge of Nazi England.
 
magicjuan said:
To follow a democratic process? the clue is in CLP
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No, to represent their interests in parliament, according to the trust given to them. And, in their view, Corbyn wasn't the right man to lead the party.

The fact Corbyn willfully ignored the collective view of the representatives of 9 million voters while simultaneously going on about his own "mandate" of a few thousand extreme left socialists says it all.
 
Mikey_Fitzgerald said:
Corbyn will never win a general election

Vault me
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Perhaps - but neither would Smith, Cooper, Burnham, Kendall, Umunna, Miliband (D), Watson, Dan "he was in the army, you know" Jarvis or indeed any of the rest of the Labour establishment being talked up by themselves.

What Corbyn does give the party though is a re-engagement with its membership and a chance to fix some of the more egregious wrongs committed during the Blair-Brown years; something that none of the rest would be likely to do. Increase the membership, engage more people, get a better representation of people into Parliament, and the Labour Party will be in a far better position than it would be after five more years of "We will do things slightly less nastily than the Tories would".
 
Tubey said:
No, to represent their interests in parliament, according to the trust given to them. And, in their view, Corbyn wasn't the right man to lead the party.

The fact Corbyn willfully ignored the collective view of the representatives of 9 million voters while simultaneously going on about his own "mandate" of a few thousand extreme left socialists says it all.
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Yet more fibs.
 
tsubaki said:
Perhaps - but neither would Smith, Cooper, Burnham, Kendall, Umunna, Miliband (D), Watson, Dan "he was in the army, you know" Jarvis or indeed any of the rest of the Labour establishment being talked up by themselves.

What Corbyn does give the party though is a re-engagement with its membership and a chance to fix some of the more egregious wrongs committed during the Blair-Brown years; something that none of the rest would be likely to do. Increase the membership, engage more people, get a better representation of people into Parliament, and the Labour Party will be in a far better position than it would be after five more years of "We will do things slightly less nastily than the Tories would".
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As a Not That Arsed Really observer, that is a great point.

Hunker down, hold the Government to account, see what emerges at the next GE.
 

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