joey_macmo
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You've argued endlessly in the other thread that Brexit wasn't a single issue referendum so taking out immigration, what policies in Corbyns speech were a 2 fingered salute to brexit voters?
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Hilary Benn Sacked From The Shadow Cabinet - wider political debate
- Thread starter summerisle
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You've argued endlessly in the other thread that Brexit wasn't a single issue referendum so taking out immigration, what policies in Corbyns speech were a 2 fingered salute to brexit voters?
neil999
Player Valuation: £80m
Pienaar's gloves
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Why would an atheist republican sing a song about a God and the monarch?
We want our politicians to be honest, don't we?
1966efc
Player Valuation: £20m
I've heard his 'One Cornetto' pleasures the ears like nothing else.
Lets see what happens then Brexit was only achieved because the Labour heartlands in the north, and midlands voted OUT - immigration was 2nd on the list of reasons on the EU I remember control being the major factor his speech yesterday was the complete opposite of concerns in those places the main reason the leadership challenge came was Corbyn had not done enough to support Remain!
magicjuan
Player Valuation: £60m
A very lax interpretation of events. The 'plot' to oust Corbyn began much earlier than the Brexit vote and Angela Eagle just a week before the vote was commending Corbyn on his campaigning and complaining that the media weren't reporting it properly.
joey_macmo
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neil999
Player Valuation: £80m
can we not call it a plot? it makes it sounds exciting and cunning..
davek
Player Valuation: £150m
Peter Oborne (a right wing commentator) sums up the situation very nicely here:
Goodbye New Labour: Victorious Corbyn consigns Blairism to history
According to the British media class, the last week has been an unmitigated disaster for Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn.
Don’t believe a word of it.
According to the received version of events, Jeremy Corbyn leads a split party, has zero chance of winning the next election, and is driven by a demented political ideology which will take Britain back to the worst days of the 1970s.
As a Tory, I don't share many of Corbyn's political beliefs, but I am certain that most of what is written about the Labour leader is false.
The truth is that Corbyn has had an outstanding week which has vindicated everything he has ever done and said as a man and a politician – a point that the Labour leader drove home in his superb leader’s speech from Liverpool this afternoon.
The achievement is colossal, and Corbyn is still growing into his job. This week has won a massive endorsement from Labour Party members – and on a scale which would leave most politicians open mouthed with envy.
More significant still, it is the second endorsement he has secured from Labour Party members in just 12 months.
This means that Corbyn is now unchallengeable as Labour leader. He has not simply defeated his opponents. He has routed them. He therefore has the strongest mandate of any opposition leader since Tony Blair in 1994.
The hard way
Unlike Tony Blair, Corbyn has to do it the hard way. He has achieved his triumph in the face of hostility from a deeply unfair and partisan British media, much of which is openly determined to destroy him and distort his actions.
He has been forced to pay a very high price for challenging conventional opinion.
But in the space of barely a year, he has reinvented Labour as a political party, taking Labour Party membership from 200,000 in the wake of the 2015 election, to more than 500,000 today.
He has done this by reinventing public discourse itself. He has abandoned the discredited politics of spin and manipulation associated both with Peter Mandelson and Tony Blair’s New Labour and David Cameron’s Tories. Corbyn is not by any means a great orator, but he speaks in the simple, intelligible language of ordinary people.
I've been a political journalist for nearly 25 years and there is no question that Jeremy Corbyn should be celebrated for ushering in this new kind of politics.
Breaking the old model
As he explicitly set out in his hugely important speech this afternoon, Corbyn has broken from the consensus politics of the last quarter of a century. From the rise of Tony Blair in 1994 until the general election of 2015, there was – to use Corbyn’s potent phrase from Liverpool today – a "political stitch up" between the main political parties.
There was an unspoken agreement between Tories and Labour that they would only work within very constrained parameters. The Cameron Conservative Party and the Blairite Labour Party both advocated near identical spending and taxation targets. They both supported the marketisation of the public sector. They both agreed the same neoliberal economic model.
In foreign policy terms, both main parties accepted British subordination to the United States of America, and therefore a neoconservative doctrine of armed intervention in order to advance the interests of the West in the Middle East and elsewhere.
Nobody can claim that these twin doctrines - neoliberalism at home and neoconservatism abroad - were successful. They led to debacles in Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya, as well as the banking crash of 2008. But anyone who challenged these two orthodoxies was politically marginalised.
This afternoon, Corbyn became the first leader of a mainstream political party to directly challenge this paradigm, with his assertion that "the old model is broken and we’re in a new era". Corbyn deserves almost unlimited credit for offering an alternative.
Support, leave - or conspire?
Corbyn's triumph does, however, create a real difficulty for his many opponents inside the Labour parliamentary party. They have been overwhelmingly defeated not just once, but twice.
It is time that they acknowledged that they have been beaten. There are two honourable ways that they can do this. They must either come out and support Jeremy Corbyn as he tries to implement the settled, democratic will of the Labour Party. That means taking front bench jobs and supporting the leadership as it sets out its distinctive vision for the future of Britain or - at the very least - supporting Corbyn loyally from the back-benches.
Alternatively, they should leave the party altogether. This would be a painful course of action - but entirely honourable. The Blairites are completely at liberty to set up their own political organisation, just as Shirley Williams and David Owen set up the Social Democratic Party in despair of what they saw as the far-left wing taking over the Labour Party in the 1980s. They can then test their popularity with the electorate.
The third course of action is to continue to behave as they have over the last 12 months, and to carry on conspiring against and undermining Corbyn. That would be deeply dishonourable and wrong, but on past performance entirely in character.
There are some intriguing parallels between the disloyalty of Blairite Labour MPs towards Corbyn and the attitude of the Egyptian deep state towards President Mohamed Morsi after he was elected president in free democratic elections in 2012.
The Egyptian Army and intelligence services, the business elite and the Nasserite left simply refused to recognise the legitimacy of multiple elections and would not enable Morsi to govern. They had their way, but the democratic transition was set back years in the process.
So far, that has been the approach of Hilary Benn, Tom Watson, Ben Bradshaw and the other Labour wreckers and saboteurs. They are refusing to accept that Corbyn has a democratic mandate and, as a result, are determined to destroy him from within.
Corbyn has earned his chance. He proved with his fine speech this afternoon that he has a vision. Labour MPs should now give him his chance to prove that he can reshape a new kind of British politics. God knows that it is badly needed. Even as a Tory, for the health of the British political system, I wish him all the luck in the world.
- Peter Oborne
http://www.middleeasteye.net/column...n-unmitigated-disaster-labour-lead-1488108898
Goodbye New Labour: Victorious Corbyn consigns Blairism to history
According to the British media class, the last week has been an unmitigated disaster for Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn.
Don’t believe a word of it.
According to the received version of events, Jeremy Corbyn leads a split party, has zero chance of winning the next election, and is driven by a demented political ideology which will take Britain back to the worst days of the 1970s.
As a Tory, I don't share many of Corbyn's political beliefs, but I am certain that most of what is written about the Labour leader is false.
The truth is that Corbyn has had an outstanding week which has vindicated everything he has ever done and said as a man and a politician – a point that the Labour leader drove home in his superb leader’s speech from Liverpool this afternoon.
The achievement is colossal, and Corbyn is still growing into his job. This week has won a massive endorsement from Labour Party members – and on a scale which would leave most politicians open mouthed with envy.
More significant still, it is the second endorsement he has secured from Labour Party members in just 12 months.
This means that Corbyn is now unchallengeable as Labour leader. He has not simply defeated his opponents. He has routed them. He therefore has the strongest mandate of any opposition leader since Tony Blair in 1994.
The hard way
Unlike Tony Blair, Corbyn has to do it the hard way. He has achieved his triumph in the face of hostility from a deeply unfair and partisan British media, much of which is openly determined to destroy him and distort his actions.
He has been forced to pay a very high price for challenging conventional opinion.
But in the space of barely a year, he has reinvented Labour as a political party, taking Labour Party membership from 200,000 in the wake of the 2015 election, to more than 500,000 today.
He has done this by reinventing public discourse itself. He has abandoned the discredited politics of spin and manipulation associated both with Peter Mandelson and Tony Blair’s New Labour and David Cameron’s Tories. Corbyn is not by any means a great orator, but he speaks in the simple, intelligible language of ordinary people.
I've been a political journalist for nearly 25 years and there is no question that Jeremy Corbyn should be celebrated for ushering in this new kind of politics.
Breaking the old model
As he explicitly set out in his hugely important speech this afternoon, Corbyn has broken from the consensus politics of the last quarter of a century. From the rise of Tony Blair in 1994 until the general election of 2015, there was – to use Corbyn’s potent phrase from Liverpool today – a "political stitch up" between the main political parties.
There was an unspoken agreement between Tories and Labour that they would only work within very constrained parameters. The Cameron Conservative Party and the Blairite Labour Party both advocated near identical spending and taxation targets. They both supported the marketisation of the public sector. They both agreed the same neoliberal economic model.
In foreign policy terms, both main parties accepted British subordination to the United States of America, and therefore a neoconservative doctrine of armed intervention in order to advance the interests of the West in the Middle East and elsewhere.
Nobody can claim that these twin doctrines - neoliberalism at home and neoconservatism abroad - were successful. They led to debacles in Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya, as well as the banking crash of 2008. But anyone who challenged these two orthodoxies was politically marginalised.
This afternoon, Corbyn became the first leader of a mainstream political party to directly challenge this paradigm, with his assertion that "the old model is broken and we’re in a new era". Corbyn deserves almost unlimited credit for offering an alternative.
Support, leave - or conspire?
Corbyn's triumph does, however, create a real difficulty for his many opponents inside the Labour parliamentary party. They have been overwhelmingly defeated not just once, but twice.
It is time that they acknowledged that they have been beaten. There are two honourable ways that they can do this. They must either come out and support Jeremy Corbyn as he tries to implement the settled, democratic will of the Labour Party. That means taking front bench jobs and supporting the leadership as it sets out its distinctive vision for the future of Britain or - at the very least - supporting Corbyn loyally from the back-benches.
Alternatively, they should leave the party altogether. This would be a painful course of action - but entirely honourable. The Blairites are completely at liberty to set up their own political organisation, just as Shirley Williams and David Owen set up the Social Democratic Party in despair of what they saw as the far-left wing taking over the Labour Party in the 1980s. They can then test their popularity with the electorate.
The third course of action is to continue to behave as they have over the last 12 months, and to carry on conspiring against and undermining Corbyn. That would be deeply dishonourable and wrong, but on past performance entirely in character.
There are some intriguing parallels between the disloyalty of Blairite Labour MPs towards Corbyn and the attitude of the Egyptian deep state towards President Mohamed Morsi after he was elected president in free democratic elections in 2012.
The Egyptian Army and intelligence services, the business elite and the Nasserite left simply refused to recognise the legitimacy of multiple elections and would not enable Morsi to govern. They had their way, but the democratic transition was set back years in the process.
So far, that has been the approach of Hilary Benn, Tom Watson, Ben Bradshaw and the other Labour wreckers and saboteurs. They are refusing to accept that Corbyn has a democratic mandate and, as a result, are determined to destroy him from within.
Corbyn has earned his chance. He proved with his fine speech this afternoon that he has a vision. Labour MPs should now give him his chance to prove that he can reshape a new kind of British politics. God knows that it is badly needed. Even as a Tory, for the health of the British political system, I wish him all the luck in the world.
- Peter Oborne
http://www.middleeasteye.net/column...n-unmitigated-disaster-labour-lead-1488108898
Whistlin' Dixie
Player Valuation: £50m
See?
Even Oborne gets it. (That's a very good summary he's made btw)
Peter Hitchens (Another right-leaning columnist, but one that talks a good deal of sense) has been saying this for years...As have I. It's a sell-out by the political elite; an unspoken agreement that has failed the British public far too long.
davek
Player Valuation: £150m
You underestimate the bad blood on Europe in the Tory Party. It has been (and will continue to be) the deepest rift in British politics bar none since the Second World War. It's tribal and eclipses even what goes on in the LP. Brexit wont end it. Brexit may end the Ukip charge but it's just going to be a running sore in the Tory Party for years to come. Those opposed to the EU brought down the Major Government, they can easily do the same to May's.
The situation with the The SNP now has changed in the sense that its potency for much of the English electorate was that they took such a pro-EU line that there would never be a day when they'd get the chance to satisfy their bloodlust against Brussels if they had any say in UK Government (which is also why the bulk of the English electorate voted for a Cameron Tory Party who'd promised them a referendum on the issue). Those two issues have been settled with Brexit. The greater issue with the SNP now is tethering them to ally with a Corbyn led LP in a future coalition. The SNP in that respect though have a balancing act to maintain: they need to be seen to be not propping up the UK political system by entering into government in the UK, yet they are in power in Scotland because of their social democratic credentials of not complying with the neo-liberalism of Westminster. That's how they snared hundreds of thousands of Labour voters in Scotland. If they stood aside at the next election to allow another Tory Government they would be politically dead in the water up there as their ideology would be seen as a pose most people cant afford.
Guy Fawkes had the right Plot !
Whistlin' Dixie
Player Valuation: £50m
Have said as much a couple of times earlier in the thread.
Don't know why people are allowing themselves to be distracted by the cabal who want to maintain the political status quo (Murdochs, the 'absolutely impartial' beeb, the tories, and bliarists) of the divide (Caused by the bliarists) in the Labour party.
These negotiations are gonna create a lot of headaches for the tories; hence the reason they prefer the spotlight to be on the divide in the opposition. No way will they keep the euro-sceptics sweet enough throughout the transition - and those euro-sceptics weren't labelled 'b'stards' for nowt...
Of course you'll hear each & every one of them say: "This government wants a strong opposition...But Corbyn won't provide one..blah blah blah".
And they'll continue to do so right up to the moment when the likes of cash & bone rear up their ugly heads and start creating all sorts of unrest and schisms in their own party which will put the spotlight straight back on them.
And that's when the bell starts tolling.
No policies form Corbyn on how to repay 500 billion just sound bites, and also he may have destroyed New Labour , but just reinvented the Michael foot/Neil Kinnock { threatened by the group militant- now Momentum}back into the party if history is correct unelectable!
neil999
Player Valuation: £80m
GOODNESS GRACIOUS
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