Hilary Benn Sacked From The Shadow Cabinet - wider political debate

[peteblue]

News thump.....

Labour anti-Semites demand an end to persecution.

Anti-Semites within the Labour party have demanded that the campaign of hate against them is ended.

“Being an anti-Semite in Labour isn’t easy at the moment,” said one of Labour’s more prominent anti-Semites.

“A lot of us joined the Labour party in the last year because we saw a bold new movement emerging that would tolerate and even welcome what many people see as our ‘mad’ views that there is a Jewish conspiracy in charge of everything that is awful in the world.

“For a while, it was fine. I could stand up in front of my new colleagues and state boldly that Jews caused 9/11, or Jews were responsible for the financial crash in 2008, or Jews made me stub my toe.

“But now, if you say anything like that, it’s leaked to Channel Four news and before you know what’s happening, you’re being harangued by that dreadful shrill woman just because you’ve said that ‘not just Jews should be allowed to celebrate holocaust day,’ it’s not on.”

However, a spokesperson for the Labour leadership has played down the criticism.

“I don’t think they’ve anything really to worry about,” he said.

“Yes, I realise we’ve had to issue statements condemning anti-Semitism within the party, but I think it’s fairly clear to everyone that there’ll be no genuine action on it.

“We welcome all sorts in our party, anti-Semite or not.

“Unless they criticise Jeremy, in which case we’ll put a brick through their window and send them rape threats.”

 

[roydo]

Pack in the nonsense please Pete.

 

[JammyP]

Pack in the nonsense please Pete.

Who said satire is dead?

 

[JammyP]

Why do we need to lower CT to a rate considerably lower than other European countries? Because succesive governments (Both Tory & Labour) have refused to invest enough in British business / infrastructure, cautiously opting not to upskill our workerforce against the public balance sheet. When the old manufacturing / heavy industries were in decline we really should have been turning retraining the workforce, instead we are left with many on the scrap heap, their skills redundant in the modern world.

Short term thinking has created the mess we are in, having to go cap in hand to other nations and their companies was in the end always going to create problems. Far too much emphasis was placed on the financial sector in the 80/90 and early 00s

Further details of the £500 Bn plan are here. Nobody is saying the solutions will be found overnight, but you have to start somewhere. The current model is broken and failing millions.

https://t.co/Bo7lVAj5Gi

Considering these policies are not election manifesto pledges they are bold. If you compare them to opposition party plans just 1 year after an election they are detailed.

Not just failing to invest in retraining the workforce. A huge factor in the collapse of British manufacturing, and the rise of banking, insurance, fund management and the service sector was the abolition of exchange controls - one of the first things Thatcher did. Mullard's TV tubes immediately left St Helens for Malaysia - the thin end of a very wide wedge stretching across the North and the Midlands. The EC will be keen to scoop up as much of the service and banking sector as it can, so the South East will feel the pain too soon. It is about time a government recognised that it is better to subsidise local production and keep whole communities in work than to pay people just to sweep up, burger flip, or watch Strictly.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Not just failing to invest in retraining the workforce. A huge factor in the collapse of British manufacturing, and the rise of banking, insurance, fund management and the service sector was the abolition of exchange controls - one of the first things Thatcher did. Mullard's TV tubes immediately left St Helens for Malaysia - the thin end of a very wide wedge stretching across the North and the Midlands. The EC will be keen to scoop up as much of the service and banking sector as it can, so the South East will feel the pain too soon. It is about time a government recognised that it is better to subsidise local production and keep whole communities in work than to pay people just to sweep up, burger flip, or watch Strictly.

Actually, it's better to try and support people so that they have the skills to thrive in the labour market. Change isn't going to go away. Lets take driverless cars as an example. In terms of safety, efficiency, air pollution and so on, the argument for them is unmistakable, yet driving is also the single largest profession for 'unskilled' men in the western world. It's quite likely that within a decade huge numbers are going to be out of a job.

The subsidy argument is akin to the luddites trashing the looms as you're saying we'll ban this technology and keep people in work, when that harms society far. It's worth remembering that global trade benefits society because of the imports, not the exports. It's far better therefore to adapt to change by making it as easy as possible to retrain, that way whether it's migrants, technology or overseas competition, people have a chance to survive.

As you'll see with the grammar school hoohaa though, the focus of government is still overwhelmingly on < 18 education, and perhaps at a push < 21 education. The concept that people will need to retrain throughout their life is alien to most in government, and when I spoke to the DWP and DoE recently on this topic they were clueless. Even their apprenticeship programs are aimed purely at school leavers.

So if we're in a situation where, for instance, Renault decide to upsticks and shut their plant in Sunderland after Brexit, the state offers precious little help to those people to retrain, much as it didn't to the steel workers in Wales. I'm all for taking personal responsibility for your life and all that, but the government really does do a god awful job of helping.

 

[JammyP]

Actually, it's better to try and support people so that they have the skills to thrive in the labour market. Change isn't going to go away. Lets take driverless cars as an example. In terms of safety, efficiency, air pollution and so on, the argument for them is unmistakable, yet driving is also the single largest profession for 'unskilled' men in the western world. It's quite likely that within a decade huge numbers are going to be out of a job.

The subsidy argument is akin to the luddites trashing the looms as you're saying we'll ban this technology and keep people in work, when that harms society far. It's worth remembering that global trade benefits society because of the imports, not the exports. It's far better therefore to adapt to change by making it as easy as possible to retrain, that way whether it's migrants, technology or overseas competition, people have a chance to survive.

As you'll see with the grammar school hoohaa though, the focus of government is still overwhelmingly on < 18 education, and perhaps at a push < 21 education. The concept that people will need to retrain throughout their life is alien to most in government, and when I spoke to the DWP and DoE recently on this topic they were clueless. Even their apprenticeship programs are aimed purely at school leavers.

So if we're in a situation where, for instance, Renault decide to upsticks and shut their plant in Sunderland after Brexit, the state offers precious little help to those people to retrain, much as it didn't to the steel workers in Wales. I'm all for taking personal responsibility for your life and all that, but the government really does do a god awful job of helping.

Hi Bruce. I am not going to argue with you about state aid but, because the market is just so far from perfect, I am not going to agree with you. I do agree that government support for adult retraining has been and remains generally shocking.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Hi Bruce. I am not going to argue with you about state aid but, because the market is just so far from perfect, I am not going to agree with you. I do agree that government support for adult retraining has been and remains generally shocking.

It's a maths thing innit? Those on the demand side of the equation will nearly always be greater than those on the supply side, yet their views are hardly ever taken into account, which is rational to an extent. Lets say you have 100 people on the supply side (steel workers, doctors, train drivers etc.) and 1,000 people on the demand side (customers, patients, passengers etc.). Now a course of action (say a new contract or a cheaper rival) might cost those on the demand side £100, whilst benefiting those on the supply side by £200. Logically you'd imagine £200 would trump £100 and society would be better off, but that £100 works out as £1 per person on the supply side vs £0.20 on the demand side, so the supply siders fight tooth and nail to prevent something from happening because it's worth more to them. They're also generally more concentrated and organised, thus can put more pressure on the state to intervene.

Perfectly rational, just not really what's best for society as a whole

 

[peteblue]

Pack in the nonsense please Pete.

Its a joke, it's humour, its satire, if we can't do satire in a political thread full of nonsense then when can we......

 

[peteblue]

Who said satire is dead?

It's not dead, just banned......

 

[Toffeelover]

Disagree there. The last two GE results have seen Labour increase it's share of the vote in Witney from 13% to 17%. Cameron just led the country over the cliff in the biggest single vote in modern times and his successor will face the music over that. They can expect to see their majority cut there.

Disagree Dave, the majority of our population voted to save the country from going over the cliff.

 

[Toffeelover]

Utter hypocrisy and she is not the only one.

The son of the Labour peer Baroness Chakrabarti attends one of Britain’s top private schools where Nigel Farage was once a pupil.

The boy goes to Dulwich College in southeast London, which has about 1,500 pupils.

Boys wishing to enter the school, where annual fees start at more than £18,000 for day pupils and £37,000 for boarders, have to sit a highly competitive entrance exam.

Shami Chakrabarti is hotly tipped to be appointed shadow attorney-general by the Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn.

The disclosure that her son goes to a selective private school may prove embarrassing for the party, which yesterday…

 

[roydo]

Utter hypocrisy and she is not the only one.

The son of the Labour peer Baroness Chakrabarti attends one of Britain’s top private schools where Nigel Farage was once a pupil.

The boy goes to Dulwich College in southeast London, which has about 1,500 pupils.

Boys wishing to enter the school, where annual fees start at more than £18,000 for day pupils and £37,000 for boarders, have to sit a highly competitive entrance exam.

Shami Chakrabarti is hotly tipped to be appointed shadow attorney-general by the Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn.

The disclosure that her son goes to a selective private school may prove embarrassing for the party, which yesterday…

I raise you Dianne Abbot.

Once of the Corbyn parish, so to speak.

 

[Jib in lad]

Can we have a Tory bashing thread just to even things up.

 

[Toffeelover]

I raise you Dianne Abbot.

Once of the Corbyn parish, so to speak.

I will raise you.

Corbyn's first wife!

 

[peteblue]

Utter hypocrisy and she is not the only one.

The son of the Labour peer Baroness Chakrabarti attends one of Britain’s top private schools where Nigel Farage was once a pupil.

The boy goes to Dulwich College in southeast London, which has about 1,500 pupils.

Boys wishing to enter the school, where annual fees start at more than £18,000 for day pupils and £37,000 for boarders, have to sit a highly competitive entrance exam.

Shami Chakrabarti is hotly tipped to be appointed shadow attorney-general by the Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn.

The disclosure that her son goes to a selective private school may prove embarrassing for the party, which yesterday…

Tbf, apparently she only allowed it because her ex husband insisted........one day she will re-introduce Grammar schools or maybe give up our nuclear deterrent because her ex husband insisted........