Kevin Thelwell - New Director of Football

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BNJ1878 said:
Well exactly. The leading clubs seem to have a new one each season.

Those that are deemed not good enough they are able to generate decent money, our neighbours being a perfect example

Our 'prospects' tend to hang around until its time for a testimonial.

I'd love to know what our academy has cost over the past 10 years. I'm sure it's an eye-watering number.
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Who is to blame though? Is it a case of all our young players being crap? I find that hard to believe. They seemed to excel at the U23 level a few years back yet nobody breaks into the first team. Is it a case of us always bringing in new managers and them wanting to see what the squad has to offer (ha!) rather than the youth team? Why do most of them not even get a quick run out? Is it because we are never seemingly in a safe position to play them? I really don't know.

I reckon there is a fair bit of luck involved in young players making it to the next level, opportunity being key etc. Gordon has gone from being deemed not good enough by some to being one of our most important players purely by playing week in week out out of necessity at first.

We ruin everybody though. First team players, young prospects, youth players, women players, everyone seems to come here and turn into crap.
 
Papa Shango said:
Who is to blame though? Is it a case of all our young players being crap? I find that hard to believe. They seemed to excel at the U23 level a few years back yet nobody breaks into the first team. Is it a case of us always bringing in new managers and them wanting to see what the squad has to offer (ha!) rather than the youth team? Why do most of them not even get a quick run out? Is it because we are never seemingly in a safe position to play them? I really don't know.

I reckon there is a fair bit of luck involved in young players making it to the next level, opportunity being key etc. Gordon has gone from being deemed not good enough by some to being one of our most important players purely by playing week in week out out of necessity at first.

We ruin everybody though. First team players, young prospects, youth players, women players, everyone seems to come here and turn into crap.
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Oh for sure there's more than one person to blame. The lack of stability above doesn't help things, managers generally firefighting with other people's players, the last thing they want is to throw in younger players into the high pressure environment of PL football. BUT, how many youth players have left Everton since 2014/15 and had a decent career at the upper levels of the game? Lundstom? Who else?

You could speculate our academy scouting falls short. I remember somebody saying our academy just doesn't have any talent there, so it's Impossible to blame the coaches. If that's the case why hasn't the academy director (as I believe his title reads) demanded a total overall of the academy scouting system? What is clear is that other teams in the North West seem to have far better success in bringing players through.

Maybe we're just unlucky. Poor Everton.

We've had good times.
 

BNJ1878 said:
Oh for sure there's more than one person to blame. The lack of stability above doesn't help things, managers generally firefighting with other people's players, the last thing they want is to throw in younger players into the high pressure environment of PL football. BUT, how many youth players have left Everton since 2014/15 and had a decent career at the upper levels of the game? Lundstom? Who else?

You could speculate our academy scouting falls short. I remember somebody saying our academy just doesn't have any talent there, so it's Impossible to blame the coaches. If that's the case why hasn't the academy director (as I believe his title reads) demanded a total overall of the academy scouting system? What is clear is that other teams in the North West seem to have far better success in bringing players through.

Maybe we're just unlucky. Poor Everton.

We've had good times.
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It's poor as it's not even sustainable.

I think the amount of youth players who come through top flight teams and end up being boss for them is overstated but at the very least most clubs will sell their young players on for decent money and that's what annoys me. We paid 1.5M for Josh Bowler for example, didn't play him once then got rid of him on a free after 4 years where he has gone on to be at least a usable player in the Championship. If we could have got him some game time here and there you are looking at 5M or so for him. Same with Beni Baningime. Played a handful of games and people thought he looked at least no worse than anyone else in our team, there was a little bit of hype about him and then he just disappeared for 3 seasons and left the club on a free. There is another player who is at least worth a couple of million who we just binned off.

We are a mess.
 
BNJ1878 said:
Oh for sure there's more than one person to blame. The lack of stability above doesn't help things, managers generally firefighting with other people's players, the last thing they want is to throw in younger players into the high pressure environment of PL football. BUT, how many youth players have left Everton since 2014/15 and had a decent career at the upper levels of the game? Lundstom? Who else?

You could speculate our academy scouting falls short. I remember somebody saying our academy just doesn't have any talent there, so it's Impossible to blame the coaches. If that's the case why hasn't the academy director (as I believe his title reads) demanded a total overall of the academy scouting system? What is clear is that other teams in the North West seem to have far better success in bringing players through.

Maybe we're just unlucky. Poor Everton.

We've had good times.
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Kieran Dowell, though it took a while for him to get there and was with us for while doing nothing of note. still, 2 isn't particularly impressive.

Martinez said early on in his reign that there was issues in football, not just at Everton, in filling in the gap of quality between u23's and the 1st team. The competition doesn't really ready them for the jump in quality. This isn't necessarily Unsworth's fault. What we have been missing is the directive from above of a style and a direction for the club, we as fans have been missing it and so have the youth at the club. Liverpool have brought some players in recently, but they aren't brought in as a 'name' they're brought in as a position with instructions and experience of doing a specific job. That makes them look higher quality and gives them nothing to fear because they know exactly what to expect.

When Brands came in, I was under the impression that he would set the direction of football matters within the club, he would set the tone, choose the manager based upon that and allow a culture to build around it. There would be a few lean years where players just weren't up to it and a changing of the guard happened, but then that all turned to rats**t as we panicked AOTS.
 

Jacko93 said:
Who would you put the Rodriguez purchase down to?
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Well obviously Ancelotti would have had a big saying in Everton going after him.
But he’d have nothing to do with negotiations with the Madrid or James’s agent regarding his salary.

I feel this is a bit like little Britain and the Denis waterman sketch
Play the main part, sing the theme tune lol
 
Jacko93 said:
Kieran Dowell, though it took a while for him to get there and was with us for while doing nothing of note. still, 2 isn't particularly impressive.

Martinez said early on in his reign that there was issues in football, not just at Everton, in filling in the gap of quality between u23's and the 1st team. The competition doesn't really ready them for the jump in quality. This isn't necessarily Unsworth's fault. What we have been missing is the directive from above of a style and a direction for the club, we as fans have been missing it and so have the youth at the club. Liverpool have brought some players in recently, but they aren't brought in as a 'name' they're brought in as a position with instructions and experience of doing a specific job. That makes them look higher quality and gives them nothing to fear because they know exactly what to expect.

When Brands came in, I was under the impression that he would set the direction of football matters within the club, he would set the tone, choose the manager based upon that and allow a culture to build around it. There would be a few lean years where players just weren't up to it and a changing of the guard happened, but then that all turned to rats**t as we panicked AOTS.
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There's a definite leap from U23 to the PL.

One of my favourite quotes (and I have used it here loads) was from Wenger:

"You pay for young players with points"

We have either been chasing Europa (several seasons ago), fighting the drop (this season) or just managers fighting the sack. (each season since 2017) so managers have been reluctant to 'risk' points by throwing on untried youth.

If we had a more defined first team formation, with say.... 9 of the players routinely playing together week in, week out it's easier to integrate U23 into the system. Particularly if they have been playing the same system since U16 level within the academy.

You're absolutely right that the direction needs to come from the DoF, but that means the DoF needs absolute control over the football side of things. Direction, hiring and firing of absolutely everyone connected to the playing side of the business up to first team where he should still have a lot of influence. Provided he's given absolute control you can only fairly judge his impact after 5 or 6 years in the role with no interference from others.

With our current board, and our pension top up scheme in operation at Finch Farm that lack of interference with the DoF is never going to happen.

FC Cosy of Walton.

NSNO my arse.
 
blueloon said:
Just about . We were without a manager at the time and Unsworth went direct to the board and made his case . He knew the situation at Sheffield United and the amount it would take to get DCL.
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According to wiki he signed in august 16. Koeman was manager then and Walsh wouid have been here to. Also apparently Bill still gets involved with transfers.

Maybe Unsworth was involved with conversation with Bill regarding his potential and value. But there’s no way he would have been involved in discussions with sheff Utd and DCL contract
 
Stephenlloyd said:
According to wiki he signed in august 16. Koeman was manager then and Walsh wouid have been here to. Also apparently Bill still gets involved with transfers.

Maybe Unsworth was involved with conversation with Bill regarding his potential and value. But there’s no way he would have been involved in discussions with sheff Utd and DCL contract
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Why are you obsessing over this so much
 

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