Kevin Thelwell - New Director of Football

[bring back the catt]

Who is to blame though? Is it a case of all our young players being crap? I find that hard to believe. They seemed to excel at the U23 level a few years back yet nobody breaks into the first team. Is it a case of us always bringing in new managers and them wanting to see what the squad has to offer (ha!) rather than the youth team? Why do most of them not even get a quick run out? Is it because we are never seemingly in a safe position to play them? I really don't know.

I reckon there is a fair bit of luck involved in young players making it to the next level, opportunity being key etc. Gordon has gone from being deemed not good enough by some to being one of our most important players purely by playing week in week out out of necessity at first.

We ruin everybody though. First team players, young prospects, youth players, women players, everyone seems to come here and turn into crap.

Too easy to point a finger without knowing any details, but something, or things, are remarkably not right.
When was it, three or so years ago the England Under 20 side won their World Cup. That side contained five players Everton players if I recall (not a given these days) with one further player on the bench. Plus, there was another player who was deemed to be a starter out injured. (Hmmm, injured, now that sounds familiar).
Where are these players now? DCL aside, there is little to suggest we have an abundance of talent waiting to breakthrough into the first team. DCL is almost by default due to poor recruitment in replacing Lakaku.
Compare the younger players from most other clubs playing regular first team football, and once again it appears Everton sadly lacking behind.
What happens at Finch Farm which reduces good players, on the face of it, into such averageness?

 

[chippy1722]

The talent coming through has been slow for the past few years but short term thinking with managers like Sam, Ancelotti, and Benitez don’t help. They have no interest in youth as they were never gonna last over 18 months at most.

 

[formerly manx toffee]

Question for people more knowledgable than me. In the years before Unsworth how many first team regulars can through the academy ?

 

[Papa Shango]

Question for people more knowledgable than me. In the years before Unsworth how many first team regulars can through the academy ?

Well lets go from when we actually last won something.

Players who played at least 20 games for us (by debut season, so not those already at the club for a few seasons like Ebbrell and Unsworth)

1995-96
Michael Branch

1996-97
Michael Ball, Richard Dunne, Danny Cadamarteri

1997-98
Francis Jeffers

2000-01
Leon Osman, Tony Hibbert

2001-02
Wayne Rooney

2004-05
James Vaughan

2005-06
Victor Anichebe

2007-08
Jack Rodwell

2011-12
Ross Barkley

2016-17
Tom Davies

2018-19
Jonjoe Kenny

2019-20
Anthony Gordon

So 15 in 27 years. It's not great is it?

I thought I was being too low with 20 games but nobody else even got close to that.

 

[MACCA75]

Well lets go from when we actually last won something.

Players who played at least 20 games for us (by debut season, so not those already at the club for a few seasons like Ebbrell and Unsworth)

1995-96
Michael Branch

1996-97
Michael Ball, Richard Dunne, Danny Cadamarteri

1997-98
Francis Jeffers

2000-01
Leon Osman, Tony Hibbert

2001-02
Wayne Rooney

2004-05
James Vaughan

2005-06
Victor Anichebe

2007-08
Jack Rodwell

2011-12
Ross Barkley

2016-17
Tom Davies

2018-19
Jonjoe Kenny

2019-20
Anthony Gordon

So 15 in 27 years. It's not great is it?

I thought I was being too low with 20 games but nobody else even got close to that.

Only about 6 of them were Prem level players too.

 

[WilliamPerry]

The talent coming through has been slow for the past few years but short term thinking with managers like Sam, Ancelotti, and Benitez don’t help. They have no interest in youth as they were never gonna last over 18 months at most.

The academy and 23 set up is a mess . The majority of the kids don’t stand a chance because of the clowns In charge of the set up

 

[Grim Weeper]

Tbh mate, I don't want accountability because I expect failure. As someone who owns a business I expect everyone who works for me to have KPI's and work to a common goal.

He should have a clear remit and be held accountable to that, same as everyone at the club. I also don't think its out the realms of belief to want communication from the club and the man who is now "meant" to be shaping our future of playing and recruitment. These are things which wouldn't strategically effect the planning of the club but will allow the fans to understand where we are going and what to expect.

I want to know how he plans on reshaping youth, the playing style, what he perceives Everton to be, how he is going to compete for youth recruitment when we are massively behind in that department, how the youth setup is going to get a bump up, and how he is going to structure the club to be a success. With due respect to Brands (and little) and Walsh, there was extremely little change on those departments.

For example, communication from Edu and the villa bloke after Grealish left was refreshing and shown those clubs had reasons and a plan. Fans aren't the boss, but they are the paying customer and we have little come from the club in terms of communication.

Just my feeling really, was hoping Prentices last finger on the pulse (if he ever had one) would feed something into his new role as Director of Communication that fans want that communication... given the current circumstance I am under the impression the club wouldn't want to do this, but come season end, they need to clearly put things out and communicate.

That’s a great reply mate, and all fair enough, but I’d still maintain the club should expect all that of him and we should hear stories about his successes and see the fruit of his efforts, and still not hear from him.

 

[chazzle_dazzle]

That’s a great reply mate, and all fair enough, but I’d still maintain the club should expect all that of him and we should hear stories about his successes and see the fruit of his efforts, and still not hear from him.

Yeah I hope that the club do expect all what I said of him and will clearly hold him too it mate - I would love to start seeing things trickle out of the club about how the youth up is being revamped and it working, I always say with a DOF though it could be 3-5 years before seeing any fruits of all that labour.

I think until that point I think, just personally, the club need to do more to ensure the fans understand he is doing his role. I think that was part of Brands downfall, no-one knew what he done or his remit actually was, I think that ultimately proved 1 his downfall and 2 that it feels Moshiri only wanted yes men.

I don't know enough about Thelwell, but I do not want him to be a yes man, I and a DOF to control all aspects of football and put a sustainable plan in place.

Fingers crossed this happens!!

 

[chicoazul]

Not comfortable with a massive red as our DOF.

 

[Neiler]

Well lets go from when we actually last won something.

Players who played at least 20 games for us (by debut season, so not those already at the club for a few seasons like Ebbrell and Unsworth)

1995-96
Michael Branch

1996-97
Michael Ball, Richard Dunne, Danny Cadamarteri

1997-98
Francis Jeffers

2000-01
Leon Osman, Tony Hibbert

2001-02
Wayne Rooney

2004-05
James Vaughan

2005-06
Victor Anichebe

2007-08
Jack Rodwell

2011-12
Ross Barkley

2016-17
Tom Davies

2018-19
Jonjoe Kenny

2019-20
Anthony Gordon

So 15 in 27 years. It's not great is it?

I thought I was being too low with 20 games but nobody else even got close to that.

More then that i think mate, Peter Clarke, Nick Chadwick, Tony Grant, the ever green Matthew Pennington - of the top of my head.

 

[UltraVires]

I think we will have a clear idea of what this man is capable of in this summer alone. In the past, I have always thought that any new DOF would need a few windows or years to get things right on and off the pitch but I think this summer is going to be a massive indication.

There is so much deadwood out of contract that if affords him a real chance to reset the club and Frank’s strong words suggest he will be pushing for a clear out too.

In the meantime, I hope he has a massive clear out behind the scenes. One of the things that Ferguson did at Utd was to refresh the staff every so often and while I don’t want people to lose their jobs, they have had them for far too long with no tangible results.

I would say goodbye to anyone who’s been in a support staff role that interacts with footballers from the first team all the way down to our youngest academy level.

I would also be looking to bring in a team of psychologists and insist they meet with every player once a week.

 

[Grim Weeper]

Well lets go from when we actually last won something.

Players who played at least 20 games for us (by debut season, so not those already at the club for a few seasons like Ebbrell and Unsworth)

1995-96
Michael Branch

1996-97
Michael Ball, Richard Dunne, Danny Cadamarteri

1997-98
Francis Jeffers

2000-01
Leon Osman, Tony Hibbert

2001-02
Wayne Rooney

2004-05
James Vaughan

2005-06
Victor Anichebe

2007-08
Jack Rodwell

2011-12
Ross Barkley

2016-17
Tom Davies

2018-19
Jonjoe Kenny

2019-20
Anthony Gordon

So 15 in 27 years. It's not great is it?

I thought I was being too low with 20 games but nobody else even got close to that.

It would be interesting to see how this compares in the same period to teams we could reasonably compare ourselves with. Spurs, for example. Teams that similarly haven’t been winning stuff but similarly have stayed in the prem at a mid-upper mid table level all that time.

Dunno if you could be bothered but it would be interesting.

 

[Baines' left foot]

More like director of fk all lol

 

[Grim Weeper]

Well lets go from when we actually last won something.

Players who played at least 20 games for us (by debut season, so not those already at the club for a few seasons like Ebbrell and Unsworth)

1995-96
Michael Branch

1996-97
Michael Ball, Richard Dunne, Danny Cadamarteri

1997-98
Francis Jeffers

2000-01
Leon Osman, Tony Hibbert

2001-02
Wayne Rooney

2004-05
James Vaughan

2005-06
Victor Anichebe

2007-08
Jack Rodwell

2011-12
Ross Barkley

2016-17
Tom Davies

2018-19
Jonjoe Kenny

2019-20
Anthony Gordon

So 15 in 27 years. It's not great is it?

I thought I was being too low with 20 games but nobody else even got close to that.

It would be interesting to see how this compares in the same period to teams we could reasonably compare ourselves with. Spurs, for example. Teams that similarly haven’t been winning stuff but similarly have stayed in the prem at a mid-upper mid table level all that time.

Dunno if you could be bothered but it would be interesting.

So I decided not to be lazy and have a go myself. I’ve only got from 95-2005 but in those 10 years spurs brought through 5 players that played 20 or more games for them, plus Peter Crouch (via Branford and QPR youth teams) who eventually played that many for spurs but not till he’d made a career elsewhere first, and plus Paul McVeigh who went on to play 200+ games for his next club Norwich but played very few times for spurs.

The players they brought through that hit 20 games were

1995/96
Nobody
1996/97
Rory Allen (?)
Stephen Clemence
1997/98
Luke Young
1998/99
Ledley King
99/2000
Nobody
2000/01
Nobody
2001/02
Nobody
2002/03
Nobody
2003/04
Johnnie Jackson (20 exactly)
2004/05
Nobody

 

[blueblue]

I think it is a challenge for premiership teams to develop academy players. The stakes are so high that managers cannot afford to risk losing games by playing young inexperienced players.
If you look at the biggest and most successful clubs even they have very few home grown players in their teams in spite of the resources they have available.

I feel our success rate in developing young players is somewhere around average.

At the moment we have DCL, Kenny, Gordon, Davies and Onyango.... some more successful than others.