Kevin Thelwell - New Director of Football

[nsno-chris]

So it’s now FFPs fault that we gave Cenk Tosun £60k a week for 4 years after paying £20m for him

Amazing lack of self awareness

 

[Papa Shango]

Thanks. I think that just shows that Rhino is no worse than others at bringing them through really. 1 every couple of years on average in the last 30 years. Doesn’t make great reading to be honest. We are producing some more that go on the have careers further down the pyramid too I guess.

where is Peter Clarke …. earlier ? Or maybe bought ?

Nah he debuted in 1999 (I think in the Coventry game which was a great away game, we were properly down to the bare bones that day, Lee Carsley scored for them).

He only made 9 appearances for us.

 

[roy vernon]

Just to put the academy thing into perspective, the team of the late 60's, who won the league in 69/70, had Wright, Labone, Hurst, Harvey, Husband and Royle who all graduated from our youth system and our two main injury replacements in that title season were Whittle and Kenyon, again they both came up through the youth ranks.

We really used to do well with our youth system, but, with the arrival of so many foreign players, who are available at a reasonable price. It is more difficult for youngster to make the break through to the first team these days.

 

[CielosGrises]

It’s why I pay zero heed to any ‘we should have gone for this manager’ ‘look at what x has done at this club’ ‘look at the football y is playing within a few months, why can’t our manager do that’

They all end in failure. Bielsa the forum’s favourite last season is now fired, Potter is back in mediocrity, Wilder is in the championship, Dean Smith will be, Nuno soared and then got burned badly, you can throw all our managers in there, Rodgers is now falling back at Leicester, Hasenhuttl can’t sustain it.

Only two teams from outside the sky six have broken the top 4 since Abramovich took over Chelsea, and they are us in 04/05 and Leicester (who I’m convinced were probably doping) in their title win. That’s 18 years and no one else has even been close aside for Leicester under Rodgers.

Only one manager in PL history in this period outside of the top 6 has picked up a team in the lower regions of the table, improved them, and then consistently built on that improvement to challenge for Europe consistently. That was David Moyes.

One, in 18 years. For every other team no matter what manager, DOF, budget, academy output, owner, stadium, the end result has been the same. None of them can even maintain European qualification in the unlikely even they’re good enough to even get into the europa.

‘We should have gone for Bruno Lage though’ - no, a completely irrelevant shout, that Wolves team won’t make top 4 under him whatever he does and in a best case scenario they’re still where they currently are in three season’s times (because he’s been good enough to maintain performances whilst replacing his best players successfully). The most likely scenario though is he loses his best players to the top 6, he then either recruits badly or one his replacements gets injured, Wolves hit a rocky patch of results, and the media and referees are on them in a flash and loss after loss follows until Lage is fired with Wolves in the bottom half battling relegation and the owners unwilling to risk PL survival.

People will say it’s tin hat stuff but it’s happened to almost every manager at every club. They either move up in rare circumstances (Poch, Santo, Moyes) or they’re gone in a few seasons. Every time. All of them. Doesn’t matter what club.

So yeah our owner has made probably every mistake in the book, but if he hadn’t, we still wouldn’t be playing CL football. Will be interesting to see how Newcastle un folds but it wouldn’t surprise me if they made exactly the same errors, overspending on players the elite don’t want to try and close the gap on the elite even though the game is rigged against you by the elite.

I don't believe in conspiracy theories but I think systemically you are spot on - it has settled into a sort of 'local maxima' and is actually pretty boring - Leicester aside.

The officials are only corrupt in so much as they are biased to the expected routine / narrative (path of least resistance) and end up affecting it too.

 

[Eggs]

Just to put the academy thing into perspective, the team of the late 60's, who won the league in 69/70, had Wright, Labone, Hurst, Harvey, Husband and Royle who all graduated from our youth system and our two main injury replacements in that title season were Whittle and Kenyon, again they both came up through the youth ranks.

We really used to do well with our youth system, but, with the arrival of so many foreign players, who are available at a reasonable price. It is more difficult for youngster to make the break through to the first team these days.

…ah, I remember it very well but times change.

Go back to the 60s and we spent all of our time with a football at our feet, we loved playing but at the same time we honed our skill set. Walk the streets of Liverpool, lads playing footy in the streets. Organised school football, with representative levels, there was a lot of talent.

These days kids engage in different activity, those who are decent at footy might get picked up by an Academy but the numbers and strength in depth aren’t there. Street footballers were skilful and competitive, I think Rooney was the last of that ilk. Perhaps it’s why those who play like the game matters are from the poorer parts of the world.

 

[mccole]

The first thing any Director of Football has to do is understand the benchmark of an Everton player.

Doesn't matter how much we spend because we have broken transfer records and smashed through wages for a handful of players who deserve to wear our shirt.

That has to be priority 101

 

[Death]

Make no mistake this will be one the best moves made by mosh.

Probably the only thing that makes me happy about Everton atm.

 

[bring back the catt]

The first thing any Director of Football has to do is understand the benchmark of an Everton player.

Doesn't matter how much we spend because we have broken transfer records and smashed through wages for a handful of players who deserve to wear our shirt.

That has to be priority 101

To my mind, David Moyes would have been a first rate DOF for talent spotting for the player with the right mental and physical requisites.
Aiden Maher (a gifted player for our younger readers) once told me of the importance of the correct 'fit' of a player other than just being a gifted footballer. Moyes used to do his homework thoroughly I thought.

 

[Goat]

To my mind, David Moyes would have been a first rate DOF for talent spotting for the player with the right mental and physical requisites.
Aiden Maher (a gifted player for our younger readers) once told me of the importance of the correct 'fit' of a player other than just being a gifted footballer. Moyes used to do his homework thoroughly I thought.

He did and thats why he got it right more often than not.

The majority of our recent managers probably watch DVDs of the players before signing them, Moyes would go and watch them personally, talk to people who knew/know them. Attention to detail is lacking in the modern game cos everything is at 100mph, its not a sport any more, its a multi-trillion pound industry and the way some clubs, mainly us, waste money due to rushing is baffling.

 

[LocalNative]

…ah, I remember it very well but times change.

Go back to the 60s and we spent all of our time with a football at our feet, we loved playing but at the same time we honed our skill set. Walk the streets of Liverpool, lads playing footy in the streets. Organised school football, with representative levels, there was a lot of talent.

These days kids engage in different activity, those who are decent at footy might get picked up by an Academy but the numbers and strength in depth aren’t there. Street footballers were skilful and competitive, I think Rooney was the last of that ilk. Perhaps it’s why those who play like the game matters are from the poorer parts of the world.

That's absolute hogwash and pure conjecture. Proper boomer post that, of course things are going to develop and the quality of players with the ball at their feet has improved with it.

 

[Zatara]

That's absolute hogwash and pure conjecture. Proper boomer post that, of course things are going to develop and the quality of players with the ball at their feet has improved with it.

This is how you instantly invalidate your point of view.

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

That's absolute hogwash and pure conjecture. Proper boomer post that, of course things are going to develop and the quality of players with the ball at their feet has improved with it.

I mean, have you got any clear evidence to the contrary in order to back up your point or are you just going to be rude to a respected and well-liked poster like an absolute berk?

 

[Billy Dean]

He did and thats why he got it right more often than not.

The majority of our recent managers probably watch DVDs of the players before signing them, Moyes would go and watch them personally, talk to people who knew/know them. Attention to detail is lacking in the modern game cos everything is at 100mph, its not a sport any more, its a multi-trillion pound industry and the way some clubs, mainly us, waste money due to rushing is baffling.

I'm sure there are lots of clubs that are still very detailed in their recruitment. Just not us.

 

[LocalNative]

I mean, have you got any clear evidence to the contrary in order to back up your point or are you just going to be rude to a respected and well-liked poster like an absolute berk?

Sick to death of this modern archetype built against modern players that the game doesn't matter to them as much as it did to players of by-gone generations. Insinuating that those from working class backgrounds play the game 'like it matters', in contrary to others is complete and utter rubbish.

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

Sick to death of this modern archetype built against modern players that the game doesn't matter to them as much as it did to players of by-gone generations. Insinuating that those from working class backgrounds play the game 'like it matters', in contrary to others is complete and utter rubbish.

Is it?

Still waiting for that evidence

Again, if you're going to go in strong on someone you should probably have something to back it up

All you've done is spew bile at someone with nothing to support it

Eggs doesn't need me to stand up for them as they are capable to do so themselves, but it doesn't sit right with me to see a good poster attacked in such a manner when you seemingly have nothing to back your attack up