Man City 0-2 Everton 25th February 20:00

[TX Bill]

Well then I'll go back to my post saying where most agree with you that the position is most in need of an upgrade in quality.

But to start picking out mistakes that he's made when every other defender we have has made similar mistakes this year to make your case that he's a poor defender really doesn't work out now does it?

I'd say get used to the Neville/Hibbert combination at that position until the summer and then we'll see what happens.

Like I said, I wouldn't mind seeing Lescott/Yobo/Jags/Baines but like you said, that means moving Neville to midfield and even though he did well there last night, he's not consistent enough for me at that position.

(We ought to have a mod put up a poll on this question just for the fun of it. Neville or Hibbert at right back on current form)

 

[rorypory]

Well then I'll go back to my post saying where most agree with you that the position is most in need of an upgrade in quality.

But to start picking out mistakes that he's made when every other defender we have has made similar mistakes this year to make your case that he's a poor defender really doesn't work out now does it?

I'd say get used to the Neville/Hibbert combination at that position until the summer and then we'll see what happens.

Like I said, I wouldn't mind seeing Lescott/Yobo/Jags/Baines but like you said, that means moving Neville to midfield and even though he did well there last night, he's not consistent enough for me at that position.

(We ought to have a mod put up a poll on this question just for the fun of it. Neville or Hibbert at right back on current form)

Where did I say he was a poor defender? My point was we defend better as a team without him.

 

[mh_ackett]

The difference in the quality of sides played is nowhere near as big as the difference in the amount of goals conceded with him in the team. We concede almost three times more often with him in the team. Those teams are not scoring 3 times the amount of goals.

Everton have also scored 25 goals when he's not playing and only 18 when he is. This if stats are always to be taken as fact, as you seem to think, proves that he is the reason why everton aren't scoring as much and the reason why we create 1 6th less chances. That seems daft and it is but it's the same logic you are using. Stats are not "fact". If they are then Phil Neville is the 36th best player in the premiership. He has played in games against harder opposition so it is more likely for the team to concede. 11 goals against 4 teams is a large amount of goals. If you exclude those 4 it is only 7 which is only 7 in 12 which is 0.58 goals per game which is a goal every 54 minutes which is better than the stat for the games he wasn't playing in. My stats are a bit more crude but just another way you use stats to back up any point. My stats lecturer always said that you can use stats to prove anything.

 

[rorypory]

Everton have also scored 25 goals when he's not playing and only 18 when he is. This if stats are always to be taken as fact, as you seem to think, proves that he is the reason why everton aren't scoring as much and the reason why we create 1 6th less chances. That seems daft and it is but it's the same logic you are using. Stats are not "fact". If they are then Phil Neville is the 36th best player in the premiership. He has played in games against harder opposition so it is more likely for the team to concede. 11 goals against 4 teams is a large amount of goals. If you exclude those 4 it is only 7 which is only 8 in 12 which is 0.66 goals per game which is a goal every 60 minutes which is better than the stat for the games he wasn't playing in. My stats are a bit more crude but just another way you use stats to back up any point. My stats lecturer always said that you can use stats to prove anything.

Stats about attacking are going to be less relevant because he is primarily a defender which is why stats about defending are more revealing. And I would say that the complete lack of any decent overlapping from Hibbert is part of the reason we don't score as many with him in the team. Those stats are facts which you can infer the other stuff from. From the stats I posted it is logical to infer that we defend better without him. The ACTIM index is not a perfect objective standard for measuring a player's performance which is why it can't be relied on and I don't think anyone does. A bare fact such as the amount of goals conceded with a player and without him is much more solid.

 

[mh_ackett]

Stats about attacking are going to be less relevant because he is primarily a defender which is why stats about defending are more revealing. And I would say that the complete lack of any decent overlapping from Hibbert is part of the reason we don't score as many with him in the team. Those stats are facts which you can infer the other stuff from. From the stats I posted it is logical to infer that we defend better without him. The ACTIM index is not a perfect objective standard for measuring a player's performance which is why it can't be relied on and I don't think anyone does. A bare fact such as the amount of goals conceded with a player and without him is much more solid.

Then my stat/fact "proves" that the big teams have a very big effect on the result. So by removing them and giving a more playing field to judge him on, which I did already, it can be proven that everton are better at defending when he is playing. So this "proves" that Tony Hibbert is in "Fact" our best defender and defence performs worse when he is not playing. Be careful what you call a "fact". Other people can come up with "facts" as well.

 

[rorypory]

Then my stat/fact "proves" that the big teams have a very big effect on the result. So by removing them and giving a more playing field to judge him on, which I did already, it can be proven that everton are better at defending when he is playing. So this "proves" that Tony Hibbert is in "Fact" our best defender and defence performs worse when he is not playing. Be careful what you call a "fact". Other people can come up with "facts" as well.

How did your stat prove anything about the big teams? Once again: We concede almost three times more often with him in the team. Those teams are not scoring 3 times the amount of goals. And 9 of the goals we've conceded with him in the team came against those teams you mentioned, not 11, he came off after 70 mins v Arsenal. Judging him on the entire league campaign thus far is much more sound than arbitrarily removing teams you rate as more difficult.

 

[Cal]

Utter rubbish, he is by far our best right back in terms of defending but his problem his going forward and always has been wereas Neville is the opposite, ie good going forward but an awful defender

No, Hibbert is the worst player in the squad.

 

[SuitsBlue]

No, Hibbert is the worst player in the squad.

very harsh.

 

[Cal]

very harsh.

Well someone has to have the title.

 

[Tennessee Blue Mike]

Hibbo did very well against a difficult adversary in Petrov. I don't think he is my first choice but he did play well last night.

Overall I was happy with Cahill's contribution in the first half. Manny is having a difficult adjustment period second time around. Jags had another man of the match for me he was throwing his body around everywhere. Lescott seems more dangerous on the left and works well with Stevie P. Yak has been outstanding lately. Beat Pompey sunday then its between us and the Red lot.

 

[TheDevils2001]

Well someone has to have the title.

Try to used another word, like weakest link.

It might be true in some way, but not exactly in every department though.

 

[Cal]

I'm being honest, he's the worst player in a brilliant squad.

That doesnt mean he's [Poor language removed].

 

[TX Bill]

Where did I say he was a poor defender? My point was we defend better as a team without him.

Ok.

We defend better without Hibbert than with ____________________ at right back ?

My point is it's gonna be either Neville or Hibbert at least until the summer time if not beyond.

So I say we defend better as a team with Hibbert in the lineup than with Neville in the lineup.

 

[chicoazul]

If we could morph Hibbert and Neville into one then we would be sound.

Would be one ugly [Poor language removed] though.

 

[Tennessee Blue Mike]

Truth of the matter is both have trouble passing the ball to a teamate. Both have a tendancy to just hoof it anywere. Sort that out and we have the best back four in the league. I'm over the moon with Jags,Yobo & Lescott.