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Martinez: Everton players fear Goodison Crowd

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Tubey said:
“It happens at home more than anywhere else. I don’t think we have that sort of doubt and fear [away from home]."

What's the difference between playing at home and playing away mate? The one difference?

It isn't the football. It's still eleven vs. eleven.

He's tried to be creative in his language, but he's effectively said as clear as day that he blames the home crowd for instiling fear in his team. That is bang out of order and an utter cop out that I hope we, collectively, are intelligent enough to see right through.
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I think you and others are being creative in your interpretation - my own opinion is that he is talking about the differences in set up away from home v being at home and that we play better and more freely away from home as a result. We are ostensibly a counter-attacking team, more suited for sitting deep and striking quickly on the counter attack. We are far less comfortable and effective when teams sit off us and the onus is on us to take the game to the opposition. This is a fundamental weakness in the team, and I believe this is what he was referring to.

For the avoidance of doubt I'm very much in the Martinez produces "less than the sum of the parts" camp, so I'm not defending him on the basis that I'm happy with what he is achieving, far from it.

I just see it differently from the slant put on the article and the interpretation put on it by some fans, including you.
 
riddick said:
Ross is a weird one tbh. The crowd seems to get on his back, but he plays better with an arm around his shoulder. Honestly, don't know what to make of the crowd or what would be needed to change it. Said it in the match thread, very weird crowd.

Which is down to the team playing like garbage for the last 18 months.
booing DURING the second half would have been crap. But that's kinda the point. The team has no idea how to play 90 minutes. Thats Martinez. I would venture a LOT of the booing would be a referendum of that degree. If we have bad players and play crap for 90 minutes, thats one thing. But we have literally class players and still are AWFUL for at least one half today.
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My main point with the booing mate is how early it happened.

Three minutes in.

If a team has made a slow start, the fans should be pulling out the chants etc, to try and fire said team into life. Not booing so early on...
 
Alex Hindmarsh said:
I get they should be trained to deal with blocking out abuse, but these players cannot expect to be booed by their own crowd regularly.

In simple terms the teams under-performed, the crowd have then under-performed, which has led us into a crisis between the two.
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But the point is if they were winning games they wouldn't be getting booed would they? The paying crowd has every right to boo a performance like that today and frankly the way the manager is trying to blame a performance like that on the supporters should spell the end of days for him, but it won't, not until he's completely turned us into Wigan. Without the trophy.
 

BlueToff said:
My main point with the booing mate is how early it happened.

Three minutes in.

If a team has made a slow start, the fans should be pulling out the chants etc, to try and fire said team into life. Not booing so early on...
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And i disagree with how early it happened. It should never happen that early. But EVERYONE could see how lethargic and slow the tempo was early on. There was no sense of urgency or 'this NEEDS to be our springboard'. That is 100% on Martinez. The idea that the crowd needs to be 100% behind the team is lunacy when the team has won 6 matches all year and is WOEFULLY underperforming. I get that they are people too but even a blind man could see that this team should be doing FAR better than they are.
 
BlueToff said:
The crowd was booing after three minutes today mate, just before Besic hit the post.

Three. Minutes.

It's toxic atm. Half down to the team/manager, and half down to frustration and panic setting in way too quickly.

Interestingly, if you go back and watch the first half, the only time Stones actually loses possession is for their goal. After that, on every occasion he gets the ball, he looks well in control. Who panics and starts booing and shouting and screaming? The fans.

I'm not at all saying the fans shouldn't be able to air their frustration or that they shouldn't. But today, and I'll say it again as it's the only way I can think to describe it, the atmosphere was toxic.
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But it's on the back of throwing away 3 points the week before (away) and the previous 2 league home games. The crowd is nervous as they've seen on previous occasions the side implode on their own doing, on their own mistakes.

I agree, three minutes in isn't the best, but when the side amble about with zero urgency and the away side settle in very early...the crowd will get shirty. Compare that to the City game in the Cup when straight from the kick off Besic volleyed Silva into the air, the tempo is set.

The crowd is toxic because results haven't been good.

You can point the same thing at United and LVG at Old Trafford who have well and truly turned because of the terrible football at home.

The side has to set the example.
 
BoysInBlue said:
I don't blame the crowd one iota.

It all stems from the team and the manager.

The atmosphere was perfectly fine in his first season when we were winning games.

It's cheap and pathetic to blame the crowd for the teams own inadequacies and the manager's completely flawed footballing philosophy.
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Tbh it actually wasnt that great in his first year other than against the top sides
 

The Esk said:
I think you and others are being creative in your interpretation - my own opinion is that he is talking about the differences in set up away from home v being at home and that we play better and more freely away from home as a result. We are ostensibly a counter-attacking team, more suited for sitting deep and striking quickly on the counter attack. We are far less comfortable and effective when teams sit off us and the onus is on us to take the game to the opposition. This is a fundamental weakness in the team, and I believe this is what he was referring to.

For the avoidance of doubt I'm very much in the Martinez produces "less than the sum of the parts" camp, so I'm not defending him on the basis that I'm happy with what he is achieving, far from it.

I just see it differently from the slant put on the article and the interpretation put on it by some fans, including you.
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He said "we need to make it comfortable for our players" - if that isn't referring to the fans, what is it referring to - new socks?

There's little to no chance those comments are in relation to playing style. If they were, he wouldn't have used the word "fear", as it doesn't make sense in that context. They aren't "afraid" of playing counter attacking football at Goodison, for example.
 
riddick said:
Exactly. Even watching on TV I almost never yell when a pass of his goes awry. It happens and is USUALLY in the opposite end of the pitch. He should be the one the supporters have the MOST patience for.
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The abuse he gets i cant see him thinking twice if someone comes in for him
 
kenada_blue said:
But it's on the back of throwing away 3 points the week before (away) and the previous 2 league home games. The crowd is nervous as they've seen on previous occasions the side implode on their own doing, on their own mistakes.

I agree, three minutes in isn't the best, but when the side amble about with zero urgency and the away side settle in very early...the crowd will get shirty. Compare that to the City game in the Cup when straight from the kick off Besic volleyed Silva into the air, the tempo is set.

The crowd is toxic because results haven't been good.

You can point the same thing at United and LVG at Old Trafford who have well and truly turned because of the terrible football at home.

The side has to set the example.
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I agree in principle mate. I'm not looking to blame the crowd, but I don't see it as Martinez blaming the crowd either. I think he's right in that if the team/fanbase may be just plays/watches with less fear, then the results will come.
 
Tubey said:
He said "we need to make it comfortable for our players" - if that isn't referring to the fans, what is it referring to - new socks?

There's little to no chance those comments are in relation to playing style. If they were, he wouldn't have used the word "fear", as it doesn't make sense in that context. They aren't "afraid" of playing counter attacking football at Goodison, for example.
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They don't really get the chance to play counter-attacking football when at home unless against the "bigger" teams - comfortable can relate as much to style of play as it can atmosphere.
 
The Esk said:
They don't really get the chance to play counter-attacking football when at home unless against the "bigger" teams - comfortable can relate as much to style of play as it can atmosphere.
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Can you explain how he could use the words "doubt and fear" in relation to setting up to play football a certain way?

What is stopping them from doing it? What is "scaring" them?
 

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