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Martinez: The Reality

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Ihaters said:
Don't agree..

Personnel, positions, formation, style, motivation - and ultimately results.. They are the things within the managers control, this is what he gets paid for.

There is loads he can do.
Click to expand...

Do you think players let Moyes down at Utd last season?
 
Del said:
Do you think players let Moyes down at Utd last season?
Click to expand...

Sure they did, but it his job to get them on side, motivate them, play them correctly, get them fit and ready at the start of the season, and get the to earn the points. He failed. He got sacked.

I'm sure you have a point there, I am missing it though.
Are you suggesting Moyes did well at United?
Are you suggesting Martinez is doing we here?
Do you think the Moyes at United thing was purely down to the players?
Do you think the same about Martinez?
 
Ihaters said:
Sure they did, but it his job to get them on side, motivate them, play them correctly, get them fit and ready at the start of the season, and get the to earn the points. He failed. He got sacked.

I'm sure you have a point there, I am missing it though.
Are you suggesting Moyes did well at United?
Are you suggesting Martinez is doing we here?
Do you think the Moyes at United thing was purely down to the players?
Do you think the same about Martinez?
Click to expand...

I think that if certain players don't fancy the manager's style/training program/Personality they don't give 100%

That may be the case this season, Players like Distin/Eto may have rocked the boat and got into the younger players heads

Only a suggestion
 

Ihaters said:
Don't agree..

Personnel, positions, formation, style, motivation - and ultimately results.. They are the things within the managers control, this is what he gets paid for.

There is loads he can do.
Click to expand...

In the context of the rest of my post, I meant in terms of squad size. He has been hamstrung by a small, inexperienced squad, with a lot of injuries to some key players, and the players who have let him down the most have been his older more experienced players, who you would look to for leadership in times of trouble, or younger, potentially brilliant players, who he has either spent a lot of money on, or who he is under pressure to play each week.

Obviously he can make changes tactically, and with personnel, but only to a degree, and he is also at the mercy of the crowd when he makes certain changes, regardless of what he thinks is best. He can't win.

Joel is in for the Injuried, underperforming Howard, fans are instantly on Joel's case, he's [Poor language removed], he's an accident waiting to happen, he's not good enough...

Fast forward a month, and everyone loves Joel, infuriated that he would be dropped.

I am 1 of those that was angry he was dropped, don't get me wrong, but I'm just pointing out the fickle, kneeejerking nature of the average fan, and with so many fans of differing ideals, it makes it impossible to keep everyone happy, all of the time.

But i digress. He has been let down badly by a number of senior players this season, notably Howard, Jagielka, Distin, Barry, Osman, Barkley, Lukaku, Eto'o...

And while there are SOME things he can do, I still maintain, there is not a LOT he can do.
 
butters said:
Things Martinez has got very, very wrong this season:

- 3 year deals to Barry and Naismith

The Naismith one in particular was baffling. Nobody else wanted him on a freebie from Rangers, why risk all that money on a long contract when he's had about 5 influential game sin his entire Everton career?

Barry deal looked good at the time, but has come back to haunt us with his awful displays, particularly before Christmas. Plus the emergence of Mo Besic who looks every bit as good as Barry, but fitter, quicker and better on the ball.

- Pre-season

It was a joke from start to finish. Didn't get the players in soon enough, disjointed performances all over the place, fitness looked miles off which shown in our early season form (now it's not fitness that is the issue, rather tactics)

- Players out of position

In only having one decent striker he's tried to play three in behind him but generally only one natural wide player, meaning Osman, Naismith, Eto'o and Barkley were rotated on the right of midfield, thus made completely ineffective as they cannot play there. Even with Naismith and Barkley, in particular, stinking the place out on a regular basis, they've still been played there. Which leads to the next point...

- Not dropping players badly off form

Howard, Jagielka, Baines, Barry, McGeady, Naismith, Barkley. All played far too many games in a row without being dropped at various times. Took an injury for Howard to lose his place, only for him to regain it and cost us three points within a week of coming back with an inept performance against Leicester at the weekend. Naismith and Barry, when fit, seem to play 90 minutes every single week (or so it feels). It's taken a suspension for Barry to exit the starting XI! Baines has been poo yet starts when fit, despite Oviedo coming in and playing well before Christmas after Baines got injured.

- Failed to admit the truth

It's all well and good being positive, but after a while, and particularly on the back of such an appalling run of results, the manager needs to admit things are going wrong and we need to go back to basics. Yet he continues using superlatives as often as possible, rather looking to find positives in a 2:2 home game against Leicester and home defeat by Crystal Palace than use it as a public kick up the arse for the players.

I'd say that's quite a lot to have got wrong in the space of just a few months. Relegation is definitely a possibility this season.
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I cannot understand all the hate for Naismith, he scored on Sunday with the only chance he had, Romelu missed sitter after sitter, bearing in mind naismith had a good run of form last year behind Lukaku, im more worried at the fact you highlighted this over gareth barrys deal !

Were the hell is Scapegoat Osman when you need him.
 
TheFinnFan said:
they have no answer to that, ive been asking them for weeks now. they just want him out and get all grumpy when asked who could replace him now
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I think many want him gone at the end of the season, some may say tomorrow, some say never. Doesnt mean you are right and the doubters are wrong.

Lets just have relegation to see how quickly you change your mind. Maybe you will turn out to be fickle.
 
Del said:
One plus point is we have been tough to beat since the start of Jan (7 games)
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Leicester City have been tough to beat all season. Hasn't stopped them becoming favourites to go down. To stay out of real trouble, at some stage we've got to start winning games.
 

Paul Bernard said:
I cannot understand all the hate for Naismith, he scored on Sunday with the only chance he had, Romelu missed sitter after sitter, bearing in mind naismith had a good run of form last year behind Lukaku, im more worried at the fact you highlighted this over gareth barrys deal !

Were the hell is Scapegoat Osman when you need him.
Click to expand...
He's poo that is why.

Fair do's he scored with a mis-hit shot on Saturday and got a very good header v Chelsea a month or so ago, but what's he done between that and approximately match day five? Anonymous for about 15 games, yet still started when fit. If we need a runner in the team let's sign Mo Farah, ffs.
 
butters said:
He's poo that is why.

Fair do's he scored with a mis-hit shot on Saturday and got a very good header v Chelsea a month or so ago, but what's he done between that and approximately match day five? Anonymous for about 15 games, yet still started when fit. If we need a runner in the team let's sign Mo Farah, ffs.
Click to expand...
 
Kever10 said:
In the context of the rest of my post, I meant in terms of squad size. He has been hamstrung by a small, inexperienced squad, with a lot of injuries to some key players, and the players who have let him down the most have been his older more experienced players, who you would look to for leadership in times of trouble, or younger, potentially brilliant players, who he has either spent a lot of money on, or who he is under pressure to play each week.

Obviously he can make changes tactically, and with personnel, but only to a degree, and he is also at the mercy of the crowd when he makes certain changes, regardless of what he thinks is best. He can't win.

Joel is in for the Injuried, underperforming Howard, fans are instantly on Joel's case, he's [Poor language removed], he's an accident waiting to happen, he's not good enough...

Fast forward a month, and everyone loves Joel, infuriated that he would be dropped.

I am 1 of those that was angry he was dropped, don't get me wrong, but I'm just pointing out the fickle, kneeejerking nature of the average fan, and with so many fans of differing ideals, it makes it impossible to keep everyone happy, all of the time.

But i digress. He has been let down badly by a number of senior players this season, notably Howard, Jagielka, Distin, Barry, Osman, Barkley, Lukaku, Eto'o...

And while there are SOME things he can do, I still maintain, there is not a LOT he can do.
Click to expand...

Bobby got rid of Victor, Fellaini & Jelavic to name three, brought in a 33 year old barry, a injury prone Alcaraz, overpaid for Romelu, bought kone and refuses to play him, brought in joel and dropped him for a poor howard, only really brought in mccarthy and besic who are of any consistent quality. Im willing to give him more time but he has spent money and he has had 3 windows so far.
 
butters said:
He's poo that is why.

Fair do's he scored with a mis-hit shot on Saturday and got a very good header v Chelsea a month or so ago, but what's he done between that and approximately match day five? Anonymous for about 15 games, yet still started when fit. If we need a runner in the team let's sign Mo Farah, ffs.
Click to expand...

I would love to see how we perform without him, young boys he played really well, he always gives 100% when the likes of mirallas and co cant be bothered, he links up our play really well. Sure he is limited in terms of technique but he is important to us right now.
 
Paul Bernard said:
I think many want him gone at the end of the season, some may say tomorrow, some say never. Doesnt mean you are right and the doubters are wrong.

Lets just have relegation to see how quickly you change your mind. Maybe you will turn out to be fickle.
Click to expand...

we stay or go down with him. he wont get sacked. when do people understand this.

...hey...chill. we wont get relegated ffs.
 

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