Martinez: The Reality

[Ihaters]

I think that if certain players don't fancy the manager's style/training program/Personality they don't give 100%

That may be the case this season, Players like Distin/Eto may have rocked the boat and got into the younger players heads

Only a suggestion

I don't get your point, he bought in Etoo, played him as a CM... how is this not on him?
It was sure as hell on Moyes when he dealt with AVM, Drenthe, Lescott etc

How many times did we finish top 8 after he 'lost the dressing room'.
The results are not just down to two people who may of thrown their toys out the pram.

One isn't even here any more ffs. And we still suck every game except in Europe.

Are you suggesting that Moyes didn't deserve to be sacked?

 

[Khalekan]

In the context of the rest of my post, I meant in terms of squad size. He has been hamstrung by a small, inexperienced squad, with a lot of injuries to some key players, and the players who have let him down the most have been his older more experienced players, who you would look to for leadership in times of trouble, or younger, potentially brilliant players, who he has either spent a lot of money on, or who he is under pressure to play each week.

Obviously he can make changes tactically, and with personnel, but only to a degree, and he is also at the mercy of the crowd when he makes certain changes, regardless of what he thinks is best. He can't win.

Joel is in for the Injuried, underperforming Howard, fans are instantly on Joel's case, he's [Poor language removed], he's an accident waiting to happen, he's not good enough...

Fast forward a month, and everyone loves Joel, infuriated that he would be dropped.

I am 1 of those that was angry he was dropped, don't get me wrong, but I'm just pointing out the fickle, kneeejerking nature of the average fan, and with so many fans of differing ideals, it makes it impossible to keep everyone happy, all of the time.

But i digress. He has been let down badly by a number of senior players this season, notably Howard, Jagielka, Distin, Barry, Osman, Barkley, Lukaku, Eto'o...

And while there are SOME things he can do, I still maintain, there is not a LOT he can do.

I don't think there is any fickleness re the Joel. situation.

We were sceptical when he came in to replace Howard.

Given what we had seen on his rare previous games, we had much to be sceptical about.

However he won us over with a string of steadily improving and increasingky competent displays.

It is to the credit of the fans that we were so quick to eat our own words and readily revise our opinion about Joel.

 

[barneygumble]

My qualm is if we're really using the European games as a 'hindrance', what's the point in us playing altogether? We may aswell finish 8th every year and qualify for nothing.

We used the same excuse as under Moyes, and now we're using it again. So next season, no european football, but possibly runs to the semi's of both the League and FA Cup, that's possibly going to equate to 15 games, which is more than our entire cup runs this year, people won't make that excuse though.

What needs to happen is the manager needs to have a good hard think about sorting his tactics out, and realising that, what was so successful last year, has been sussed out, and subsequently we've became too timid, and we can't hit teams on the counter, mainly due to the fact we play Barkley or Naismith out of position there.

Sign a pair of wingers, win a few games, simple.

 

[Del]

Leicester City have been tough to beat all season. Hasn't stopped them becoming favourites to go down. To stay out of real trouble, at some stage we've got to start winning games.

They have lost 16 games and conceded 42 goals in 26 games, Hardly tough to beat

We have lost 10 games, Same amount as Stoke who sit above us and only 2 less than Spurs, Our major issue is the 10 draws against poor sides

 

[Chimpy Glassman]

Wigerton.
We are a carbon-bloody-copy of Wigan.

One trick pony manager.

 

[degsy]

you have to admit if we dont get off to a good start next season the pressure will be sky high

Will it ever... unless he has trip to Warsaw win or lose it will be his and Bills get out of jail card for the next season

 

[Del]

I don't get your point, he bought in Etoo, played him as a CM... how is this not on him?
It was sure as hell on Moyes when he dealt with AVM, Drenthe, Lescott etc

How many times did we finish top 8 after he 'lost the dressing room'.
The results are not just down to two people who may of thrown their toys out the pram.

One isn't even here any more ffs. And we still suck every game except in Europe.

Are you suggesting that Moyes didn't deserve to be sacked?

I am not saying Martinez is blameless, What I am saying is if certain players turn against him and don't give 100% then we would see a negative effect on and off the pitch

Maybe a coincidence but since Eto/Distin have been away from the first team our form has improved

 

[Ihaters]

In the context of the rest of my post, I meant in terms of squad size. He has been hamstrung by a small, inexperienced squad, with a lot of injuries to some key players, and the players who have let him down the most have been his older more experienced players, who you would look to for leadership in times of trouble, or younger, potentially brilliant players, who he has either spent a lot of money on, or who he is under pressure to play each week.

Obviously he can make changes tactically, and with personnel, but only to a degree, and he is also at the mercy of the crowd when he makes certain changes, regardless of what he thinks is best. He can't win.

Joel is in for the Injuried, underperforming Howard, fans are instantly on Joel's case, he's [Poor language removed], he's an accident waiting to happen, he's not good enough...

Fast forward a month, and everyone loves Joel, infuriated that he would be dropped.

I am 1 of those that was angry he was dropped, don't get me wrong, but I'm just pointing out the fickle, kneeejerking nature of the average fan, and with so many fans of differing ideals, it makes it impossible to keep everyone happy, all of the time.

But i digress. He has been let down badly by a number of senior players this season, notably Howard, Jagielka, Distin, Barry, Osman, Barkley, Lukaku, Eto'o...

And while there are SOME things he can do, I still maintain, there is not a LOT he can do.

There is loads... 3,4, or 5 at the back, 0,1 or 2 dms, wingers, wide men, overlapping or static wide defenders, 1 cm - 5 cms, 1, 2 or 3 strikers.. He can do what he wants, defend, attack, long ball, direct, short, passing, running, head to the byline and whip in crosses etc.
Look how infamous Everton were pre Martinez with injuries, we got better then, the manager does everything but kick the ball.

He has so much he can do... look at Mirallas, he plays him or doesn't, plays him left wing, left mid, AM, right mid, right wing, striker, tells him to get to the byline and cross, or run at the defence, free license on long shots, excert effort tracking back or not etc... that's one player, let alone how he interacts with the other players on the pitch.

Enough excuses, he's not doing very well.. of course he shouldn't be sacked, but we are where we are because of his choices, be it personnel, transfers, system or whatever.

 

[Ihaters]

I am not saying Martinez is blameless, What I am saying is if certain players turn against him and don't give 100% then we would see a negative effect on and off the pitch

Maybe a coincidence but since Eto/Distin have been away from the first team our form has improved

Sadly not much, may just be that Jags and Stones are better players tbf.

 

[daz4matty]

Martinez needs to find a way of playing in the premier league.
Europe is so different.
The way we set up 1st half against Leicester was laughable with 2 defensive midfielders and only 1 striker,he really needs to change things up.

 

[orly]

I am not saying Martinez is blameless, What I am saying is if certain players turn against him and don't give 100% then we would see a negative effect on and off the pitch

Maybe a coincidence but since Eto/Distin have been away from the first team our form has improved

Not really Derek, we've won once in the last 12 in the league (at Palace) and the win before that I guess was home to QPR.

Can't really say the form has improved all that much

 

[ste d' indica]

I think that if certain players don't fancy the manager's style/training program/Personality they don't give 100%

That may be the case this season, Players like Distin/Eto may have rocked the boat and got into the younger players heads

Only a suggestion

Its a very valid one. I've had experience of the damage a determined malcontent can do to a group, particularly when a new manager comes up against an old guard. If thats happened it would have been a massive problem for Martinez and a very tricky situation to manoeuvre out of.

 

[Big Fat Sam]

I would love to see how we perform without him, young boys he played really well, he always gives 100% when the likes of mirallas and co cant be bothered, he links up our play really well. Sure he is limited in terms of technique but he is important to us right now.

Young Boys are the equivalent of Everton Women's B team. Hence why he looked great against them but poo as usual against Leicester.

 

[steken1]

For me a combination of 6-7 different things, some out of his control. He needs to do better but there's at least 6 or 7 players who've either put no effort at all into this season or they've just been utterly abysmal. Some of these are our most talented players too.

 

[daz4matty]

Its a very valid one. I've had experience of the damage a determined malcontent can do to a group, particularly when a new manager comes up against an old guard. If thats happened it would have been a massive problem for Martinez and a very tricky situation to manoeuvre out of.

You would have thought he would have come across this in his 1st season though.
Now he has put his stamp on the club I would expect it to be a lot easier for him.