Modern Football Fans & Stats

[hibbo'sclass]

Been delayed for 6 months thanks to the EU. 6 more months of Bailey Jay Still doesn't make me regret voting leave mind.

*heads off to replenish w*** sock stock

 

[Viennablue]

Rather watch a match mate.
And if a scout has to look at transfer market to see who a player plays for he needs a new job .

If your scout/director of football doesn’t use stats he’s a dinosaur. This whole thread is like the first half hour of moneyball.

“We know best. This is the way it’s done. We like what we know. Stats can’t tell me anything I can’t can’t over 90 mins. Computers are for geeks” etc etc etc...

The times are a changing. Get on board or get left behind.

 

[SerenityNigh]

I have read the book mate, even watched the film.

It has very limited application in football.

Very true. Watching films together can be a good team building exercise, but really it’s scouting opponents that is the only consistently useful film resource in club football.

And I don’t know where books benefit the modern footballer except for those few erudite artistes like Mr Baines who enjoy reading as leisure.

 

[Papa Shango]

If your scout/director of football doesn’t use stats he’s a dinosaur. This whole thread is like the first half hour of moneyball.

“We know best. This is the way it’s done. We like what we know. Stats can’t tell me anything I can’t can’t over 90 mins. Computers are for geeks” etc etc etc...

The times are a changing. Get on board or get left behind.

Stats with so many variables are not worth anything.

The variables in baseball are not even in the same ball park (yup..) as football.

 

[buskwhi2]

Relying on your eyes allows you to do things like buy Davy Klaassen when a quick look at some stats would show, and did show at about the time we made the deal, that he wasn't actually suited to the Premier League. To act like statistics have no value at all is naive as is acting like you can put together a whole team without watching people play. It's a balancing act.

I’m not sure this is a good example at all. Klaassen’s stats were amazing for Ajax in terms of goals, assists and distances covered. Based on stats he was a great buy.

 

[TheBigIguana]

I’m not sure this is a good example at all. Klaassen’s stats were amazing for Ajax in terms of goals, assists and distances covered. Based on stats he was a great buy.

If goals, assists and distance covered were the only stats that existed you would be right

 

[bring the ghost on]

If goals, assists and distance covered were the only stats that existed you would be right

It’s a really bad example. Steve Walsh was renowned for being a “stats man” and doing the opposite of what you suggest - he relied way too heavily on stats and didn’t use his eyes enough.

Klaassen is an example of someone who shone in every department stat wise, but couldn’t make the transition to the premier league because he wasn’t physical or quick enough.

 

[bring the ghost on]

If your scout/director of football doesn’t use stats he’s a dinosaur. This whole thread is like the first half hour of moneyball.

“We know best. This is the way it’s done. We like what we know. Stats can’t tell me anything I can’t can’t over 90 mins. Computers are for geeks” etc etc etc...

The times are a changing. Get on board or get left behind.

As usual, the answer is somewhere in the middle - you need to use stats to back up your own judgment, but over use of them is not good practice.

There are many diamonds in the rough whose stats are poor but who a proper football mind can spot will improve a team or turn into a great player with time.

 

[TheBigIguana]

It’s a really bad example. Steve Walsh was renowned for being a “stats man” and doing the opposite of what you suggest - he relied way too heavily on stats and didn’t use his eyes enough.

Klaassen is an example of someone who shone in every department stat wise, but couldn’t make the transition to the premier league because he wasn’t physical or quick enough.

This isn't true though. I can't find the article again but there was one written right around when he signed saying that the goals and assists are deceiving because every other measurement is poor so if those dry up he is useless. It was a prophetic article really.

 

[roy vernon]

Relying on your eyes allows you to do things like buy Davy Klaassen when a quick look at some stats would show, and did show at about the time we made the deal, that he wasn't actually suited to the Premier League. To act like statistics have no value at all is naive as is acting like you can put together a whole team without watching people play. It's a balancing act.

I saw Klaassen before we signed him and had grave doubts as to whether he was brave enough or strong enough for our league, didn’t need stats. I also saw Pele, Eusebio, Best and Alan Ball didn’t need stats to see that I was watching great players.

 

[TheBigIguana]

I saw Klaassen before we signed him and had grave doubts as to whether he was brave enough or strong enough for our league, didn’t need stats. I also saw Pele, Eusebio, Best and Alan Ball didn’t need stats to see that I was watching great players.

That's fair. I saw him play maybe twice and didn't really have an opinion but had concerns after reading that he was consistently having less touches and passes than his midfield teammates.

 

[blue to the bone]

If your scout/director of football doesn’t use stats he’s a dinosaur. This whole thread is like the first half hour of moneyball.

“We know best. This is the way it’s done. We like what we know. Stats can’t tell me anything I can’t can’t over 90 mins. Computers are for geeks” etc etc etc...

The times are a changing. Get on board or get left behind.

No. But watching a player will tell an awful lot more.

 

[ClausThomsen]

There seems to be a weird opinion running through some posts that those who use statistics are somehow averse to actually watching a player. The stat work and analytics that are done at professional sports clubs are there to complement the scouting, not replace it.

Given the lean towards data analysis at clubs it's clear there must be some value to it....these people do it for a living and it's a fairly ruthless industry.

 

[whiteshadow]

Yeah, let's ignore stats completely and listen to all these articulate posters who type a lot of wham and like to ignore stats completely because they normally contradict their own impressions on players.

It's not like these are the kind of posters who decide a player is cack after 1 game, only to completely change their mind after the next one.

Truth is you shouldn't ignore stats or treat them as a fully accurate indicator of how good a player is.

Problem is the stat haters are too lazy to bother looking at stats and most of the stat lovers only use the stats that confirm their own beliefs, while ignoring any that don't.

Problem isn't the stats themselves it's how people use them.

 

[Death]

Whatever happened to watching a game and coming up with an opinion based on what you saw with your own eyes?

It's been mentioned in other threads but there seems to be a huge emphasis on people using random stats to demonstrate why we should or shouldn't sign a player when for the most part the stats used are garbage.

If we could stop using pointless stats as the sole basis as to the pros and cons of a player that would be great. Surely the 4 hours you spent compiling stats and making graphs would have been better spent climbing off your stained bed sheets, having a shower and putting some effort into forming meaningful relationships.

I disagree but only cause I'm a free thinker.